From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #150 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, July 10 1998 Volume 02 : Number 150 In this issue: [scribes]: Colour choices: black [scribes]: Re: My last note about scroll information RE: [scribes]: neat pens RE: [scribes]: Gold leaf [scribes]: Re: My last note about scroll information (RE-SENT) Re: [scribes]: neat pens Re: [scribes]: Re: My last note about scroll information RE: [scribes]: neat pens [scribes]: neat pens ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:48:42 +0100 (BST) From: Barbara Webb Subject: [scribes]: Colour choices: black A number of people suggesting colour ranges have included various blacks. When I did art at school I was taught never to use black paint (in fact we weren't allowed to have a tube of black). This may sound bizarre but I have found it a very sound rule over the years. If you have black (and especially if you don't have a lot of painting practice) you use it for darkening colours and for shadows, and everything tends to come out muddier and muddier. If you don't, you learn to use alternate or saturated colours for shadows and shading, to use opposite colours to build greys and browns, to use blue plus an opposite for darkening. The result is usually looks far more vibrant, the paintings glow off the page. I only use black (ink) for outlining. I wouldn't want to argue that they didn't use black paint in period manuscripts (because I'm sure someone would immediately point out examples where they did) but I am fairly happy that my illumination, generally, does have the look of the originals. So I would say, use black sparingly, and (at least for the learning experience) try sometimes not using it at all. I find it is better to have a few, expensive but right colours than lots of cheap ones - I get by with about six colours (a cadmium red and a "pink" red, an emerald green and a dark green, a cadmuim pale yellow and ultramarine blue) + white of course, and I do a lot of different styles. That's not to say this is the "correct way": just to contribute my perspective to those looking for ideas! Caitlin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:37:48 -0400 (EDT) From: hollis@slic.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: My last note about scroll information I think I have inadequately described my situation, again. I live in the East Kingdom, Shire of the Northern Outpost. That's mundanely known as Potsdam, New York. For longstanding political reasons, it is currently impossible for me to be a member of the SCA or a participating member of that shire. Over the years, I've seen any number of medieval scrolls (real ones), and quite a few SCAdian replicas. I recently spent 4 days at my grandfather's house (He's a priest and he has a large copy of the Book of Kells) poring over that wonderful document. What I need is this: I assume that when scribes are asked to do a scroll, they're given some information. Basics that I would guess they would receive are: name of person, name of award, giver(s) of award, date of award, where award is (was?) given, and possibly any specifics about the award or the person that should be included. It is this information that I would like, since I would like to try my hand at making a scroll just from the basics, and having you all tell me how I did afterwards. Is that any clearer? :) Hollis - ---------------------------- Hollis Easter hollis@slic.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/2436/ "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world: indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead, anthropologist - ---------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:25:27 -0500 (CDT) From: daffy + chiara Subject: RE: [scribes]: neat pens =BB<< Well, James, you *could* mix them if they were still wet! If they = are =BB mixable/spreadable after they've dried, then we can be sure that they= are =BBnot =BB waterproof. >> =BBpoint of fact is she said with a wet brush not blend them while wet...= .which =BBwould bring me to the conclusion that the ink was dry and the brush wa= s wet =BBas =BBone would be able to blend with a dry brush too-JimBear If I may barge in here...I know for sure that the black, colored,=20 and metallic pens are waterproof, because I have them, and I've=20 tried wetting them down. I haven't tried the white yet, but when=20 I go to work on Mon., I will (I work in an art store). I have a theory,=20 however: It is unlikely that a white pen would be used directly on white paper. Therefore, I'm assuming that Aine uses them for whitework--drawing=20 lines on top of the paint. Since the paint itself is probably not=20 waterproof, when a wet brush is applied, the paint will mix with the ink on top, no matter how waterproof the ink is. Does this make sense? =20 Chiara da Ravenna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:48:41 -0500 (CDT) From: daffy + chiara Subject: RE: [scribes]: Gold leaf =BBWhich brings me to the question: where, in the list's opinion(s), is t= he =BBbest =BBplace to order the supplies for doing gold leaf? I've tried one sourc= e, =BBonly =BBto be told that they really only do wholesale (and I doubt that I will= be =BBdoing enough of it to warrant buying it wholesale, as seductive as wor= king =BBwith it is). They did give me another possible source, Baggot Leaf, b= ut =BBunfortunately, the phone number that they gave me is a fax number. Me= , I =BBlike =BBto talk to real people, if I can. =20 =BBMargaret Cameron =BBClerk of the Scriptorium for the=20 =BBBarony of Caer Mear, in the=20 =BBKingdom of Atlantia =BB(SCA) Baggot Leaf represents Sepp Leaf Products. Baggot's phone # is (212)431-GOLD. The owner's name is Grace Baggot. Their address is: 430 Broome St., Second Floor, NYC, NY 10013-3260. Sepp Leaf can be reached at (212)683-2840. The address is: 381 Park Avenue South, New york, NY 10016. Their catalog doesn't list prices, but when I asked for a range=20 a couple years ago, the prices they gave me were a little less=20 than I'd seen anywhere else at the time. If you do request their catalog, be sure to ask for their burnisher catalog, too. I started out using comp leaf, too, for the same reasons as you. Now that I've tried the real thing, I'm *never* going back. I=20 find real gold to be much easier to work with. I use patent leaf, because it's *so* much easier to handle. I've always been able to=20 burnish it nicely, too. Another good source for leaf is John the Artificer; he sells it a few leaves at a time, so your initial investment isn't so great. Are you going to Pennsic? If so, stop by the Monastery of St. Gabriel. (mka The Gabriel Guild) They are *very* knowledgeable, and often give classes. hope this is helpful... Chiara da Ravenna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:51:15 -0400 (EDT) From: hollis@slic.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: My last note about scroll information (RE-SENT) This has been sent again because I don't think it got through the first time. ============= I think I have inadequately described my situation, again. I live in the East Kingdom, Shire of the Northern Outpost. That's mundanely known as Potsdam, New York. For longstanding political reasons, it is currently impossible for me to be a member of the SCA or a participating member of that shire. Over the years, I've seen any number of medieval scrolls (real ones), and quite a few SCAdian replicas. I recently spent 4 days at my grandfather's house (He's a priest and he has a large copy of the Book of Kells) poring over that wonderful document. What I need is this: I assume that when scribes are asked to do a scroll, they're given some information. Basics that I would guess they would receive are: name of person, name of award, giver(s) of award, date of award, where award is (was?) given, and possibly any specifics about the award or the person that should be included. It is this information that I would like, since I would like to try my hand at making a scroll just from the basics, and having you all tell me how I did afterwards. Is that any clearer? :) Hollis - ---------------------------- Hollis Easter hollis@slic.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/2436/ "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world: indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead, anthropologist - ---------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:16:32 EDT From: AngelODay@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: neat pens In a message dated 7/10/98 2:51:07 PM Central Daylight Time, daffyd@worldpath.net writes: > It is unlikely that a white pen would be used directly on white paper. > Therefore, I'm assuming that Aine uses them for whitework--drawing > lines on top of the paint. Actually, I used it on black paper, and wondering if perhaps I just hadn't let it dry long enough, I just now pulled out the piece I was scribbling on (which has been sitting for at least a week) and put a wet paint brush to it. 'Lo and behold, the white still was blendable. As far as using it on top of paint, for my whitework. I've seen it used as such and I thought it didn't look poor, but I haven't tried it yet. For some reason I have this fear that if I dare "cheat" the great scribal Gods are going to rain horrible things down upon me. ;D ~~ Aine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:26:09 -0700 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: My last note about scroll information Hollis, Since it seems that you aren't doing a scroll for anyone in particular and are just doing it for practice, rather than doing an SCA style scroll why don't you do a favorite poem or saying or something like that with the nice calligraphy and illumination? That way you'll have something nice to hang on the wall and it won't be totally irrelevant. You'd still be able to get the "feel" of doing scrollwork. But if you absolutely must do a scroll, you might as well make it out for yourself. Just make something up - "We, Laurel and Hardy, King and Queen of the World, do hereby grant Our glorious subject Hollis the Unknown, title in perpetuity to the land west of the Mississippi, etc. etc." Have some fun with it. Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:04:15 -0316 (CDT) From: daffy + chiara Subject: RE: [scribes]: neat pens =BB =BBActually, I used it on black paper, and wondering if perhaps I just ha= dn't =BBlet =BBit dry long enough, I just now pulled out the piece I was scribbling o= n =BB(which =BBhas been sitting for at least a week) and put a wet paint brush to it.= 'Lo =BBand behold, the white still was blendable. =BB =BBAs far as using it on top of paint, for my whitework. I've seen it us= ed as =BBsuch and I thought it didn't look poor, but I haven't tried it yet. F= or =BBsome =BBreason I have this fear that if I dare "cheat" the great scribal Gods = are =BBgoing to rain horrible things down upon me. ;D =BB =BB~~ Aine =BB Hmmm... that does make it seem as though the white pens are indeed=20 watersoluble. I wonder why all the pens in this line are waterproof but the white? Anyway, I'm still gonna try it out. Don't worry about the Scribal Gods. They probably cheat, too. :) Anyway, doesn't the word "anachronism" figure prominently in the=20 name of our group? :)=20 =20 Chiara (running for cover!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:10:48 PDT From: "Russell Husted" Subject: [scribes]: neat pens >I discovered some cool pens today... > >Zig Memory System Millennium Writers (made by EK Success) >These are fiber tipped markers that are "acid-free, archival quality, >lightfast & waterproof". Available tip sizes are: .005mm, .01mm, >.03mm, .05mm, & .08mm. Available colors (in all tip sizes) are: >black, brown, blue, green, orange, pink, red ,violet & yellow. >Retail price is about $2 each. > I too have this great fear of using these pens. I know some of the scribes in my kingdom use pens filled with paint on scrolls, but would these Zig pens be acceptable? I do not want the great scrible gods to come down on me either. Maithgen (Maheen) Torre de los Brazos, Ansteorra Russell Husted ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #150 *****************************