From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #145 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, July 8 1998 Volume 02 : Number 145 In this issue: [scribes]: Gold info [scribes]: Re:Color Therory [scribes]: Is anyone there??? its quiet... [scribes]: event prize scrolls [scribes]: up n running [scribes]: Scribes at Pennsic [scribes]: Gold leaf Re: [scribes]: A & S advice [scribes]: Bookbinding books? Re: [scribes]: A & S advice Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge Re: [scribes]: A & S advice [scribes]: neat pens Re: [scribes]: Gold Questions Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge Re: [scribes]: Color theory Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge Re: [scribes]: A & S advice Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge [scribes]: Gold Questions Re: [scribes]: A & S advice Re: [scribes]: A & S advice Re: [scribes]: Gold Questions Re: [scribes]: Greying Re: [scribes]: Color theory ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:39:36 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: [scribes]: Gold info Greetings unto my favorite companions :-) I finally got a definitive answer from Easy Leaf as to the weights of the gold leaf products. The standard weight for all of their products is 18 grams per 1000 leaves, or 0.018 g/leaf (a little more than the .015 g/leaf that the rest of the industry uses, and which Rose Folsom mentions in her book). The exception are two products offered by Ruhl from Germany that exceed this by a lot: Rosenoble and 24 Karat are both 23 g/1000, or .023 g/leaf. This is an extra 28% thicker than normal leaf, and is *not* proportionally more expensive which is nice ($36 versus $32 for standard = %12 more in cost). The gentleman at Easy Leaf said that for the illumination work that we do, the thicker 24 K gold is better -- it's easier to use (doesn't flutter away as easily, I presume), has a nicer look and is cheaper per gram!. I presume as well that it sticks to itself better without the copper or other impurities that accompany the lower Karat golds. Hope that helps. Yours in Service always. Thomas - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:55:23 -0700 From: "Gael Stirler, SCA Lady Dairine" Subject: [scribes]: Re:Color Therory Dear Lucia, Darine writes >>However, we use a 24 tube student set of paints Lucia writes >wow! That's a more wide ranging spectrum than I use. I don't have any >oranges, for example, since that always seemed easy to make. I can see >the need for the range, however; I just haven't been willing to invest >that much yet. The student set of paints that we use in my classes is by Maries and we buy them at Ben Franklin Crafts for about $7 a box. No lie!They may not be the highest quality but I have painted some amazing scrolls with them and not had any fading problems. I encourage you to get a student set like this (or some other cheap manufacturer like Pentel, tube or cake) and experiement with the other hues to learn their unique properties. You'll find that veridian, hooker's green, and thalo green may look similar but all behave differently when mixed with other colors or made into a wash. This kind of learning can only be done by experiencing it yourself, so play with it. >Perhaps you can help me with a specific question. I was looking at a copy >of the Visconti Hours last night and noticed how brilliant the blues were. >I took them to be ultramarine. It seems to me, however, that when I mix >white with tube ultramarine, it begins to gray out and lose its brilliance. > Have you noticed this? Is this just a normal change when lightening this >blue? Others seem to stay closer to the original hue. Ultramarine means "deep ocean blue" so it is good for deep transparent blue effects. It was originally made from Lapiz. Cerulean means "sky blue" and it is a somewhat opaque pigment made from cobalt which is a kissing cousin to turquoise. Blue pigments, more than any other, must be chosen carefully to achieve the right effect. Greens on the other hand are real easy to mix from blue and yellow pigments of any kind. Since there are so many different shades of green in nature and they are observed as a riot of dark and light, yellow greens, blue greens, etc. that I believe our minds are trained to accept any greens they see. But a smooth blue sky is so perfect and brilliant that any imperfection is instantly obvious. Over time we have trained our eyes to spot the smallest changes in the blue that may indicate birds or bad weather approaching. There are other reasons for this, too. Remember how I said that ultramarine is transparent? Transparent colors tend to change color when mixed or glazed. When glazed over a light background they get warmer to the eye. Glazed over a dark background they get cooler. The same is true of opaque colors that are "succumbled" over a background. Nuetral grey smoke scumbled over a dark background like a roof looks bluish, but the same smoke on a bright sky looks brownish. The term for this is interferance. Its why mountains turn from blue to purple as they receed and sunsets are orange. A night sky can be ultramarine but a daylit sky is reflecting more light so you need a more opaque pigment of a turquoise-type blue mixed with white and it just can't be mixed from ultramarine. Cobalt and prussian blue are darker, greyer blues than ultramarine. Prussian is more opaque than cobalt. Don't use them from sunny skies. They are better from the clothes of common people, soldiers and cloudy day skies. In medieval art the skin tones vary from absolutely grey to swarthy browns. Any pinkish tan is acceptable but avoid that sunburned look. A thin mixture of white, yellow ocher, a little scarlet red(vermillian) and, just a touch of green to nuetralize the red a little is my favorite. For most small figures a wash of white and burnt sienna (brown)is fine. So remember there are several things that infuence color The chemical and mineral make up of the pigment The transparency of the paint The color it is next to The shade it is glazed or scumbled over How the finished artwork is lit And how our brains preceive color If this sounds overwhelming just remember that we are constantly bathed in color. All of these influences blend to create color harmony around us all of the time. All we need to do is put down the paint in a manner that is pleasing to us and we probably have it right. When it looks wrong, then it is time for us to play with the paint until we accidently create the effect we were looking for. Sincerely Lady Dairine - -- Chivalry Sports Renaissance Store now has its own domain name. Look for us now at http://RenStore.com for the best in Medieval, Renaissance, and Fantasy Merchandise. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 20:58:22 -0700 From: kstoner@home.com Subject: [scribes]: Is anyone there??? its quiet... - -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Argent, on a bend cotised azure between two pine trees couped sable a sword | |inverted proper | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Kenneth Allen Stoner Cystennin Ap Gereint | |San Diego, CA. Calafia, Caid. | |Kstoner@Elgar.com Kstoner@home.com | |http://24.0.173.254/KenStoner.htm http://24.0.173.254/Cystenin.html | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |SCA Scribes List Coordinator. http://24.0.173.254/Scribes.htm | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 12:32:00 -0500 From: Cindy Baker Subject: [scribes]: event prize scrolls Our shire will be holding a local event in September and I will be involved in making award scrolls as prizes for various games & tourneys held during the day. Do any of you have suggestions for wording or ideas that you have used for similar scrolls? I have done scrolls like this before, but am running out of ideas. There is no specific theme for this event, but we will be making scrolls for heavy weapons tourney, fencing tourney, a musical competition, a children's treasure hunt, and several 'silly' games. Perhaps there are period manuscripts with illuminations touching on some of these areas that I could use for inspiration? Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions. Ellen of the Scholars ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 22:32:57 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: [scribes]: up n running Aidan here. The computer (mouse and modem at the same time...oooohhhh ahhhhh) are running again, so we are contactable again. Thanks for everyone's patience. Aidan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:07:42 -0700 From: "Lisa Loftin" Subject: [scribes]: Scribes at Pennsic Greetings! A while back, someone mentioned trying to have a scribes gathering at Pennsic. Has anyone done anything to that end? I will gladly help. Elisabeth, Flaming Gryphon Lisa Loftin, Dayton,OH - --- Ventis secundis, tene cursum. Go with the flow. Get your FREE, private e-mail account at http://www.mailcity.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:53:36 EDT From: SCOTSWMMN@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Gold leaf OK - am working on my first attempts at gold leaf, and having an absolute blast with it! I must admit, though (for those who live in a state that has a lottery) the part about using a soft brush to clear away the excess leaf reminds me an awful lot of a "scratch ticket". Anyway . . . Currently, I'm using a composite leaf -- the "fake" stuff (as I call it) -- just until I learn the basic techniques, that is. Once I get a bit better at it, I want to try the "real" stuff. At the prices that real gold must command, I simply can't afford to use it for practice. Even so, the lluminated capital that I'm currently working on is just sooooo spiff with composite gold leaf (instead of the "gold" paint that I could've used)! Boy, am I hooked. Which brings me to the question: where, in the list's opinion(s), is the best place to order the supplies for doing gold leaf? I've tried one source, only to be told that they really only do wholesale (and I doubt that I will be doing enough of it to warrant buying it wholesale, as seductive as working with it is). They did give me another possible source, Baggot Leaf, but unfortunately, the phone number that they gave me is a fax number. Me, I like to talk to real people, if I can. So, how about it, list? What's your favorite source? What pointers can you give me and the other gold leaf neophytes on the list? What's your favorite 'type' of gold work/size/etc? Tell me what you love about it. Tell me what you hate about it. The only thing that I ask is that you be as specific as possible when discussing techniques, please - if you think that your reply will clog up the list, please email me privately. I'd rather get a longish email that tells me specific techniques, instead of reading a bunch of really short emails that assume that I know more than I do, ok? Please? Margaret Cameron Clerk of the Scriptorium for the Barony of Caer Mear, in the Kingdom of Atlantia (SCA) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:37:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: Re: [scribes]: A & S advice *Personal bias alert!* I *hate* popular vote competitions! Not only do you have to contend with the "popularity contest" aspect of it (oh, look, there's Bill's piece; let's all vote for that!), but you also have most people voting on the basis of "ooh, ahh" factor. The piece that is impressive because of its adherence to period techniques and its attention to detail will usually be passed over with preference given to the flashy fantasy piece. I've seen both of these outcomes more often than any kind of well-reasoned judging in such competitions. Yuck, ptui! Graidhne ni Ruaidh BMDL, AEthelmearc On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Lisa Loftin wrote: > Greeting all! > > I have been placed in charge of organizing A & S classes and competition for an event our group is hosting this fall. Competition will not be juried, just a popular vote. This is the first time I've done this. Any advice/suggestions from older, wiser, more experienced heads? > > In service, > Elisabeth de Gerdeston, Flaming Gryphon, Midrealm > (Lisa Loftin, Dayton, OH) > --- > Ventis secundis, tene cursum. > Go with the flow. > > > Get your FREE, private e-mail > account at http://www.mailcity.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:54:02 -0100 (GMT-0100) From: Anna Troy Subject: [scribes]: Bookbinding books? I suppose this is slightly off-topic but I hope people don't mind. To you bookbinders out there, can you recommend any books for the absolute beginner? Anna de Byxe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 22:31:31 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: A & S advice At last year's Toys for Tots tournament, I sponsored a "Best Scorpion in any Medium" competition. The scorpion is the local barony's mascot. Entries were to have minimal documentation (what, when, where, materials, use) and required a toy donation to the T4T pile to enter. They were judged by the populace (one vote per person, blank ballots handed out at troll) and counted by me. I think we had about a dozen or so entries, which were out for display all day (the event was at a park and attracted spectators, too). I think it will be run again this year, if I get off my rear and organize it. The winner got a scroll (of course!!) and the acclamation of all of us there. Ms. Aidan Barony of al-Barran Kingdom of the Outlands Lisa Loftin wrote: > > Greeting all! > > I have been placed in charge of organizing A & S classes and competition for an event our group is hosting this fall. Competition will not be juried, just a popular vote. This is the first time I've done this. Any advice/suggestions from older, wiser, more experienced heads? > > In service, > Elisabeth de Gerdeston, Flaming Gryphon, Midrealm > (Lisa Loftin, Dayton, OH) > --- > Ventis secundis, tene cursum. > Go with the flow. > > Get your FREE, private e-mail > account at http://www.mailcity.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:31:48 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge > Could you post to the group just how and why you give your nibs a rub-down with > the Gum Arabic? I have never heard of doing that, but it strikes me as making > sense. I'd like to hear your explanation (and feel free to be verbose). > > Thanks, Thomas ------------------------- Hi all, As Thomas requested, this is why you use Gum Arabic to rub-down nibs before writing. Have you ever noticed that sometimes the ink (or whatever other type of fluid you choose) acts like it is being repelled by the nib? That is because you put hand oils on the nib (usually) when you put them into your nib holder. So, the Gum Arabic acts as a cleaning agent to make your fluid stick to the nib long enough for it to flow (rather than bubble up and repel). Once you get into the habit of doing this, you will find that whenever you forget to do it, you REALLY notice it. KHvS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL Seneschale of the Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom ~~ Vert, a unicorn head couped close Argent, crinned and armed Or, and in sinister, a gore Or ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 20:06:28 -0700 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: A & S advice ches wrote: > The best advice I can give you is to make a drawing of where all the > tables are going to go and start taking reservations. I've never encountered reservations for an A&S contest; could you explain how they work, and why they're useful? /=================================================================\ |John Francis Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| |francis@thibault.org |===========================================| |Crosston, Mists, West| Any time somebody has a conditioned | |My LAN, my opinions. | response, they *always* think of Pavlov! | \=================================================================/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:02:40 -0500 (CDT) From: daffy + chiara Subject: [scribes]: neat pens I discovered some cool pens today... Zig Memory System Millenium Writers (made by EK Success) These are fiber tipped markers that are "acid-free, archival quality, lightfast & waterproof". Available tip sizes are: .005mm, .01mm, .03mm, .05mm, & .08mm. Available colors (in all tip sizes) are: black, brown, blue, green, orange, pink, red ,violet & yellow. Retail price is about $2 each. Gelly Roll (gel-based ink, rollerball pens) by Sakura Acid-free, water-proof, fade-proof. Only one tip size available... looks like about .05mm. Available in same colors as Millenium, and also metallics (gold, silver, and colors) I'm not sure if the metallics are acid free or not. Retail price: about $1.20 each. Ph test marker by Fiskars A felt-tipped marker that determines the approximate Ph of paper. Retail price: $7 The best place to look for these would probably be in a store that deals in scrapbook/memory book supplies. Major art stores should have them, too. have fun Chiara da Ravenna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 11:59:55 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold Questions Hi, In my current project I am putting down an extensive field of straight Ultramarine and then in shell gold on top of this field painting some skeletal architecture, stars, astronomical signs and people. The look is amazing. This is based on a Tres Riches design. I tried it a second time, this time using Windor & Newton "gold" goauch and got a very dull effect (serves me right for trying to save money). Using the "Golden Bull" as the basis for design. So, paint first then the gold over the top. as ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melboune, Australia Thomas Brownwell wrote: > > My questions about Eadui Basan's work have been answered and the conclusion > seems unquestionably that plate 16 in the Decorated Letter was painted gold, not > leaf. > > Now I have a theoretical question. Did illuminators typically lay down a layer > of color under their gold paint, or did they paint directly onto the vellum? It > seems to me that there probably was a layer of color under the gold, because of > the different look that the mistakes have compared to the body of the border in > plate 16. There is a smudge of gold that extends outside the border on the > lower right that has a much yellower look than the majority of the border > (thanks Eowyn). So, what would they have used *under* shell gold? Whenever we > used to do (fake) gold in Calafia's scriptorium we'd first paint a layer of > yellow and that would very much improve the look of the gold paint. This gold, > on the other hand, looks much darker than a layer of yellow might produce. Any > thoughts? > Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:34:19 -0400 From: "Dorinda E Courtine-White" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge > If you will be at Pennsic, I will gladly show anyone how I was taught to do > this. No extra charge!! . > > KHvS I'll be there! When and where will you teach it? :) Miri Oooh! Oooh! Can I come too?? Please???? Dorinda Courtenay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 15:05:58 -0700 From: "Gael Stirler, SCA Lady Dairine" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Color theory Dear Lucia, Darine writes >>However, we use a 24 tube student set of paints Lucia writes >wow! That's a more wide ranging spectrum than I use. I don't have any >oranges, for example, since that always seemed easy to make. I can see >the need for the range, however; I just haven't been willing to invest >that much yet. The student set of paints that we use in my classes is by Maries and we buy them at Ben Franklin Crafts for about $7 a box. No lie!They may not be the highest quality but I have painted some amazing scrolls with them and not had any fading problems. I encourage you to get a student set like this (or some other cheap manufacturer like Pentel, tube or cake) and experiement with the other hues to learn their unique properties. You'll find that veridian, hooker's green, and thalo green may look similar but all behave differently when mixed with other colors or made into a wash. This kind of learning can only be done by experiencing it yourself, so play with it. >Perhaps you can help me with a specific question. I was looking at a copy >of the Visconti Hours last night and noticed how brilliant the blues were. >I took them to be ultramarine. It seems to me, however, that when I mix >white with tube ultramarine, it begins to gray out and lose its brilliance. > Have you noticed this? Is this just a normal change when lightening this >blue? Others seem to stay closer to the original hue. Ultramarine means "deep ocean blue" so it is good for deep transparent blue effects. It was originally made from Lapiz. Cerulean means "sky blue" and it is a somewhat opaque pigment made from cobalt which is a kissing cousin to turquoise. Blue pigments, more than any other, must be chosen carefully to achieve the right effect. Greens on the other hand are real easy to mix from blue and yellow pigments of any kind. Since there are so many different shades of green in nature and they are observed as a riot of dark and light, yellow greens, blue greens, etc. that I believe our minds are trained to accept any greens they see. But a smooth blue sky is so perfect and brilliant that any imperfection is instantly obvious. Over time we have trained our eyes to spot the smallest changes in the blue that may indicate birds or bad weather approaching. There are other reasons for this, too. Remember how I said that ultramarine is transparent? Transparent colors tend to change color when mixed or glazed. When glazed over a light background they get warmer to the eye. Glazed over a dark background they get cooler. The same is true of opaque colors that are "succumbled" over a background. Nuetral grey smoke scumbled over a dark background like a roof looks bluish, but the same smoke on a bright sky looks brownish. The term for this is interferance. Its why mountains turn from blue to purple as they receed and sunsets are orange. A night sky can be ultramarine but a daylit sky is reflecting more light so you need a more opaque pigment of a turquoise-type blue mixed with white and it just can't be mixed from ultramarine. Cobalt and prussian blue are darker, greyer blues than ultramarine. Prussian is more opaque than cobalt. Don't use them from sunny skies. They are better from the clothes of common people, soldiers and cloudy day skies. In medieval art the skin tones vary from absolutely grey to swarthy browns. Any pinkish tan is acceptable but avoid that sunburned look. A thin mixture of white, yellow ocher, a little scarlet red(vermillian) and, just a touch of green to nuetralize the red a little is my favorite. For most small figures a wash of white and burnt sienna (brown)is fine. So remember there are several things that infuence color The chemical and mineral make up of the pigment The transparency of the paint The color it is next to The shade it is glazed or scumbled over How the finished artwork is lit And how our brains preceive color If this sounds overwhelming just remember that we are constantly bathed in color. All of these influences blend to create color harmony around us all of the time. All we need to do is put down the paint in a manner that is pleasing to us and we probably have it right. When it looks wrong, then it is time for us to play with the paint until we accidently create the effect we were looking for. Sincerely Lady Dairine - -- Chivalry Sports Renaissance Store now has its own domain name. Look for us now at http://RenStore.com for the best in Medieval, Renaissance, and Fantasy Merchandise. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:56:27 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz KHvS)" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge > Could you post to the group just how and why you give your nibs a rub-down with > the Gum Arabic? I have never heard of doing that, but it strikes me as making > sense. I'd like to hear your explanation (and feel free to be verbose). > > Thanks, Thomas - ------------------------- Hi all, As Thomas requested, this is why you use Gum Arabic to rub-down nibs before writing. Have you ever noticed that sometimes the ink (or whatever other type of fluid you choose) acts like it is being repelled by the nib? That is because you put hand oils on the nib (usually) when you put them into your nib holder. So, the Gum Arabic acts as a cleaning agent to make your fluid stick to the nib long enough for it to flow (rather than bubble up and repel). Once you get into the habit of doing this, you will find that whenever you forget to do it, you REALLY notice it. KHvS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 17:38:26 -0400 From: Sally Burnell Subject: Re: [scribes]: A & S advice >I have been placed in charge of organizing A & S classes and competition for an event our group is hosting this fall. Competition will not be juried, just a popular vote. This is the first time I've done this. Any advice/suggestions from older, wiser, more experienced heads? My Lady Elisabeth, Well, I have been the Baronial MoAS of the Barony Middle Marches for two years and run two Baronial A&S Championships. If you would like to do a popular vote thing, you could do several things that have worked for me in the Baronial A&S Faires: 1. Do a bean count using the Companions of the Oak, Willow and Laurel as your "judges". The Laurels get 6 beans, the Oak/Willows get 4 beans, general populace get 2 beans. Or whatever you decide.......... 2. In our last Baronial A&S, we used a "modified regional style" competition. The bean count thing did not go over well, as I received numerous complaints about people having no quantitative measure of their work (i.e. score). Well, the reason I did bean count is to eliminate the pressure of scoring and documentation and all that, as many people are afraid of entering the Regional Faires for fear of judges being too hard on them. So I wrote to Mistress Rayah Blackstar for advice on how she ran the Pennsic Faires and got all of her information and it worked BEAUTIFULLY. The "documentation" was a 3" x 5" card with the following information requested: 1. What it is 2. What used for 3. Timeframe 4. Country/area 5. Materials made from Quick, simple, to the point and easy to write on a 3 by 5 card. Then the pieces were judged on the following criteria: "Documentation" (or card info) 0-5 points Skill (Craftsmanship, how well made) 0-10 points Art (mediaeval artistic appeal, originality, creativity) 0-10 points Judge's opinion (the Oooh/aaaah factor) 0-5 points I must credit Rayah for the above info as I got it from her. Anyway, it does work and judging goes quickly and the only drawback is having to tally the scores when it is all done, which is not bad if you have help! Hope this helps some! I've used both methods and they both work. People seemed more pleased when they had some "quantitative measure" of their work. Also it helps if you have comment sheets next to each piece regardless of which method you use. Be sure to buy LOTS of pens and hand each entrant a pen and comment sheet to set next to their work. You could try having the entrants stay with their work so they can discuss it with the people judging, if the entrants would not be too averse to that idea. This way no one is bummed if no one writes comments, which I admit is a real problem. A lot of people wanted comments and got none, so if they stay with their work they are more likely to get feedback if that is what they are genuinely after. Good luck, and if you need any more help, feel free to contact me! Lady Saradwen Ariandalen Marche of Gwyntarian Baronial MoAS, Middle Marches ICQ # 13015575 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:41:01 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge Greetings one and all, and especially Miri. Why would one load a nib with a brush (or in my case, an eye-dropper)? Well, it boils down to control of 1) where the ink goes and 2) how much gets there. 1 -- If I dip a pen, the top and bottom of the nib end up with ink on them. Now, because of gravity, the ink flows primarily to the bottom-side of the nib, leaving the top with a thin layer that quickly dries out. Then the next time I dip, that top layer doesn't necessarily rehydrate, so I end up with layer upon layer of ink on the top of the pen. This clogs up the crack in the nib that draws the ink down in a controlled manner through capillary action (the same forces that draw water *up* into a dry paper napkin). The way around this is to completely clean the pen periodically by dipping it in the water and wiping it off. On the other hand if I carefully place a drop of ink on just the underside of the nib (or in the ink hole at the top of a Mitchell nib), then the ink only goes to the bottom of the nib and I have to thoroughly clean it much less often. In fact on most scrolls that I do I only clean the pen once while writing, then more thoroughly when I'm done -- dip, blot, then wipe, repeat until water runs clear. 2 -- If I dip a pen, I have little control over how much ink ends up in the pen. Sometimes it may be only a small amount but usually it's a large drop. I've ruined pieces I'm working on because that drop decided to take a hike and plopped onto the page I was calligraphing. The solution is to carefully flick the excess ink back into the reservoir as described by another scribe on this list. I choose the easier route. I know from experience exactly how much ink my pen will hold (two drops with a reservoir, one without) before it starts dropping its ink. Therefore all I have to do is dip a brush into the ink reservoir then touch the brush to the underside of the pen (or the bowl of the Mitchell nib), and I'm done. I have the most ink my pen will hold without worrying about whether it will blotch all over my page. Personally I use a small 1 ounce dropper bottle that I got years ago filled with Higgins ink. Any of the small bottles that commercial Technical Pen inks come in will work (they *have to* have the dropper), and as they are re-fillable they are a great deal. An eye-dropper will also work just fine though you have to worry about cleaning it off carefully at the end of a job. I tend to stay away from using my brushes because the inks I use permanently damage them. Yours may or may not. When I use colored pigments in the pen I always use a brush. I hope that helps and gives you some ideas. Yours ever in service, Thomas. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 14:22:17 PDT From: "Russell Husted" Subject: [scribes]: Gold Questions >Now I have a theoretical question. Did illuminators typically lay down a layer of color under their gold paint, or did they paint directly onto the vellum? "Gold was an important and expensive feature of manuscript illumination. Sometimes the gold was ground to a powder and used like paint. A more brilliant result was achieved by using gold leaf, which is gold that has been beaten into tissuse-thin leaves.How thin? One source tels us that 145 leaves, each probably about a few inches square, could be beaten from a single gold coin (fig. 37). The gold leaf would be glued to the surface of the vellum page and then pollished to a bright shine by a process caled burnishing. Usually a smoothe, hard object, such as an animal tooth, was used for burnishing. Gold leaf was always applied before other painting so that the burninshing process would not smudge or damage the surrounding painted areas (fig.38)..." Bibles and Bestiaries-A guide to Illuminated Manuscripts, p.29, ISBN 0-374-30685-0 On the page they show a plate shere gold paint has been layed down. The plate was never finished. It does not appear that any paint has been put down before the gold paint(paint made from crushed gold). I hope that will help. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Elizabeth Maes Subject: Re: [scribes]: A & S advice Find out whether your kingdom has any A&S standards for judging (I assume everyone does). READ THEM. Then decide whether or not to use them. Then tell everyone what set of criteria you are using - kingdom or home grown. Personally, I can't stand a lot of the criteria for judging used in my kingdom. But you ABSOLUTELY must have something, and everyone needs to know what it is ahead of time. Will they need documentation? How much is that going to be, weighed against the rest? This will allow the artists to allocate their time wisely to obtain the best presentation, since we can't all be wonder-wizzes and do it all perfectly. Make sure you have enough judges to do everything. Next, sit down with all of the judges and make it ABUNDANTLY clear to them how you want the show run. You're running it, they're helping you by offering their expertise. This means making sure THEY have read the criteria which you are using. If it's kingdom criteria, make sure they've read the most recent version. Don't force people into judging stuff. Avarage 2 people's opinion, rather than 3. It won't kill anyone. Don't panic. Don't worry. Smile. Ultimately, as with any endeavor, some people will get squirrel-y, panic, and pull rank. If it all goes to pieces, remind yourself that you're doing this for fun and to help others better themselves. Some people don't want to be better, they just want a good score. You won't change them. Don't let them change you. Don't panic. Don't worry. Smile. Moragh, She Who Hates A&S Competitions - ---ches wrote: > > The best advice I can give you is to make a drawing of where all the > tables are going to go and start taking reservations. Carry the picture > with you to every event and let all know that you are doing this. It will > save you a lot of headaches and arguments. You will still have some not so > nice folks argue with you but at least 99% of the others in the show will > be happy with you and stand by you if the disgruntled folks decide to make > a big stink about it just cause they are of rank. > > Ches > > On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Heather Swann wrote: > > > > I have been placed in charge of organizing A & S classes and competition for an event our group is hosting this fall. Competition will not be juried, just a popular vote. This is the first time I've done this. Any advice/suggestions from older, wiser, more experienced heads? > > > > > > In service, > > > Elisabeth de Gerdeston, Flaming Gryphon, Midrealm > > > > > I'd say set up some guidelines so folks have an idea of how to judge > > things. > > > > Miri > > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:17:12 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: A & S advice In a message dated 98-07-06 12:11:46 EDT, l.loftin@mailcity.com writes: << Greeting all! I have been placed in charge of organizing A & S classes and competition for an event our group is hosting this fall. Competition will not be juried, just a popular vote. This is the first time I've done this. Any advice/suggestions from older, wiser, more experienced heads? In service, Elisabeth de Gerdeston, Flaming Gryphon, Midrealm (Lisa Loftin, Dayton, OH) >> Will this be in the form of a People's Prize or Laurel's Prize? If so, I would suggest that you as autocrat buy some inexpensive token or sweets to put with each entry/display so that the entrants will know that someone thought their work was special/noteworthy...nothing is sadder than to have something displayed that doesn't have any type of recognition for effort. I would also suggest some note paper next to the item so that any who view may make polite comments, and make sure that the entrants don't hang around the display all day......it makes some folks nervous about commenting on an item with the entrant "hovering" about.-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:17:13 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gold Questions In a message dated 98-07-06 09:18:24 EDT, brownwell@home.com writes: << Now I have a theoretical question. Did illuminators typically lay down a layer of color under their gold paint, or did they paint directly onto the vellum? >> I think it would depend upon the medium used....if gouache was used the shell gold would pull up the colour below and muddy the effect, if tempera were used then it wouldn't be a problem. If as a scribe of that time and wanted to do flat gilding I might mix some boll into it just to give it some colour, and to bolster the gold with the ruddy hue that they liked during that period.-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:17:14 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Greying As Luigseach said the colour wheel will show you the opposite spectral colour. If you wanted to create a gray scale of one colour with the pure colour being the brightest, you would add a small quantity of the opposite spectral colour and it will give you a gradiant with the same tonal value meaning if you were to add a small amount of purple to orange it would make the orange greyer but still be orange....hope that didn't confuse you -JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:58:15 -0700 From: "Gael Stirler, SCA Lady Dairine" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Color theory DearLucia, I am all with you on the importance of being able to mix your own colors. Even when using tube gouache I prefer to mix the colors a little so that they don't look so artificially uniform. However, it is necessary to learn the limits of your paints when you are mixing colors. Theoretically, you are able to mix every color visible from a palette of red, blue, yellow, black, and white. In the real world paints are made of pigments not theories. Pigments are made from chemicals and minerals that have various mixing properties. Some are transparent and some are opaque. Scarlet is a slightly yellow red that turns burgandy when mixed with a little blue but will never turn crimson. Ultramarine is slightly purple so, no matter how you try, it can never be mixed to create a clear, sky-blue. For that you need Cerulean. I always start beginners mixing their own colors thus educating the eye to see the subtle diferences in shade and tone. However, we use a 24 tube student set of paints with three different reds, four different blues, four browns, 3 yellows, 3 greens, 3 oranges, two purples, black and white. This allows enough balance between following the color plan by rote and experimenting with color mixing that the students learn the properties of the paint. Notice that there are no flesh tones or greys. These should be mixed as the need arises and can be mixed from many different combinations of pigments. Since one face differs from another and even the skin on the cheek is a different color than the forehead you can see how dull it would be to rely on a pre-mix to get a fleshtone. Sincerely, Lady Dairine, Gutenberg School of Scribes http://renstore.com/articles/GSS - -- Susan Lynn Arthur wrote: > > I am considering teaching a class in basic color theory and shading at our > next Atlantian university. Alas, my experience and training are almost all > modern in origin, so I would ask your kind indulgence and your opinions. > > I used Master John's color comparison card as the basis for the prototype > class I taught and we mixed tube colors to achieve the desired matches. > This seems to me a way to learn to work with basic colors. I am assuming > this class will be of interest mostly to beginning scribes who are not yet > ready to tackle purchasing pigments and making our own paints. If, > however, modern tube colors exist that closely replicate period colors, > should I perhaps re-cast the class description? Having spent some years > learning how colors work together, I tend to think that knowing how to > mix-it-yourself to make whatever color you want is an invaluable skill and > offers an infinite range of color possibilities. Do others agree? Or is > it preferable to simply purchase colors that match and remove one layer of > uncertainty? > > Lucia ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #145 *****************************