From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #140 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, July 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 140 In this issue: [scribes]: Color theory Re: [scribes]: Color theory Re: [scribes]: Period resevoirs Re: [scribes]: Period resevoirs Re: [scribes]: Color theory Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge [scribes]: Celtic Knotwork Site ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 11:29:00 -0400 From: Susan Lynn Arthur Subject: [scribes]: Color theory Greetings, good gentles, I am considering teaching a class in basic color theory and shading at our next Atlantian university. Alas, my experience and training are almost all modern in origin, so I would ask your kind indulgence and your opinions. I used Master John's color comparison card as the basis for the prototype class I taught and we mixed tube colors to achieve the desired matches. This seems to me a way to learn to work with basic colors. I am assuming this class will be of interest mostly to beginning scribes who are not yet ready to tackle purchasing pigments and making our own paints. If, however, modern tube colors exist that closely replicate period colors, should I perhaps re-cast the class description? Having spent some years learning how colors work together, I tend to think that knowing how to mix-it-yourself to make whatever color you want is an invaluable skill and offers an infinite range of color possibilities. Do others agree? Or is it preferable to simply purchase colors that match and remove one layer of uncertainty? Lucia =========================== Lady Lucia Bellini Atlantian Scrivener Royal House Flamingbolt Elvegast, Windmasters' Hill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:16:28 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Color theory In a message dated 98-07-05 11:39:59 EDT, susanla@mindspring.com writes: << I used Master John's color comparison card as the basis for the prototype class I taught and we mixed tube colors to achieve the desired matches. This seems to me a way to learn to work with basic colors. I am assuming this class will be of interest mostly to beginning scribes who are not yet ready to tackle purchasing pigments and making our own paints. If, however, modern tube colors exist that closely replicate period colors, should I perhaps re-cast the class description? Having spent some years learning how colors work together, I tend to think that knowing how to mix-it-yourself to make whatever color you want is an invaluable skill and offers an infinite range of color possibilities. Do others agree? Or is it preferable to simply purchase colors that match and remove one layer of uncertainty? >> I doubt that only new scribes will be interested in your class, as many scribes haven't a clue what a colour wheel is or how to use them. One of the inherent dangers in using period pigments is that there are some colours which have chemical reactions to others (the leads with viridian and orpiment for example) where as modern equivelents do not. My suggestion would be also a study of underpainting colours for deep shadows and which colours work best for greying a colour. Good luck with your class-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:00:28 -0400 From: patriot@mip.net Subject: Re: [scribes]: Period resevoirs At 08:21 PM 7/5/1998 +1000, you wrote: I have also read (can't remember where so don't ask for a source ! ) that wool was sometimes inserted in the shaft of a quill to hold ink like a sponge and extend writing time to more than a few letters. >Christina Nevin wrote: >> >> Thomas Brownwell wrote: >> >> Add a reservoir to a quill by taking something springy >> bending it into an "S" and inserting it most of the >> way up into the quill. I've read that this is perfectly authentic -- >> nothing new there!!! >> >> Does anyone have any primary source material documenting/showing this? I >> would love to know. The local calligraphy/illumination Laurel says she >> can't find anything. She inserts a cut-off sliver of the quill back into >> the shaft to act as a reservoir and reckons they probably did something >> like that, but of course it would be impossible to tell from pictures. >> >> Yours in service to the Dream, >> Lucrezia >Hi, > There usually a thinning of the ink just before the dip pen runs out of >ink and a very dark next letter as the pen is refilled. I don't think much >of this sort of intense detail would be reproduced in the facsilimes we >usually use as our source material and many of the musuem exhibits are too >well protected to observe this sort of detail either. > >Expensively, I own a leaf from a from a Flemish Psalter of 1450, but this is >also a pity that someone had to break a book down to single pages to sell it >(a scanned copy of the page will be on a site soon) and beside me as I type >this message. This shows this light and dark pattern, but it is still very >difficult to pick when the scribe filled his pen and where the letter has >been composed as two strokes. Some of them could only two letters, but >generally not more than one word. > >as ever > >Thorfinn, Lochac, West >Melbourne, Australia > > David Adams in Maryland ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 12:00:28 -0400 From: patriot@mip.net Subject: Re: [scribes]: Period resevoirs At 08:21 PM 7/5/1998 +1000, you wrote: I have also read (can't remember where so don't ask for a source ! ) that wool was sometimes inserted in the shaft of a quill to hold ink like a sponge and extend writing time to more than a few letters. >Christina Nevin wrote: >> >> Thomas Brownwell wrote: >> >> Add a reservoir to a quill by taking something springy >> bending it into an "S" and inserting it most of the >> way up into the quill. I've read that this is perfectly authentic -- >> nothing new there!!! >> >> Does anyone have any primary source material documenting/showing this? I >> would love to know. The local calligraphy/illumination Laurel says she >> can't find anything. She inserts a cut-off sliver of the quill back into >> the shaft to act as a reservoir and reckons they probably did something >> like that, but of course it would be impossible to tell from pictures. >> >> Yours in service to the Dream, >> Lucrezia >Hi, > There usually a thinning of the ink just before the dip pen runs out of >ink and a very dark next letter as the pen is refilled. I don't think much >of this sort of intense detail would be reproduced in the facsilimes we >usually use as our source material and many of the musuem exhibits are too >well protected to observe this sort of detail either. > >Expensively, I own a leaf from a from a Flemish Psalter of 1450, but this is >also a pity that someone had to break a book down to single pages to sell it >(a scanned copy of the page will be on a site soon) and beside me as I type >this message. This shows this light and dark pattern, but it is still very >difficult to pick when the scribe filled his pen and where the letter has >been composed as two strokes. Some of them could only two letters, but >generally not more than one word. > >as ever > >Thorfinn, Lochac, West >Melbourne, Australia > > David Adams in Maryland ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:09:48 -0400 (EDT) From: hollis@slic.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Color theory At 11:29 AM 7/6/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings, good gentles, > >I am considering teaching a class in basic color theory and shading at our >next Atlantian university. Alas, my experience and training are almost all >modern in origin, so I would ask your kind indulgence and your opinions. > >I used Master John's color comparison card as the basis for the prototype >class I taught and we mixed tube colors to achieve the desired matches. >This seems to me a way to learn to work with basic colors. I am assuming >this class will be of interest mostly to beginning scribes who are not yet >ready to tackle purchasing pigments and making our own paints. If, >however, modern tube colors exist that closely replicate period colors, >should I perhaps re-cast the class description? Having spent some years >learning how colors work together, I tend to think that knowing how to >mix-it-yourself to make whatever color you want is an invaluable skill and >offers an infinite range of color possibilities. Do others agree? Or is >it preferable to simply purchase colors that match and remove one layer of >uncertainty? > >Lucia Lucia, a class of this type would not be useless at all. You assume correctly that the class would be of use to beginning scribes (and not-so-beginning scribes) who are not yet ready to tackle purchasing pigments and making their own paints. Although it is possible to simply purchase colors that match, this is out of the financial range of many of us. I, for one, am a poor high school student who isn't even a member of the SCA, and I feel compelled to whine about money... Imagine how the college student hordes feel... (Sorry, that was off topic). Mixing colors was a skill that was neglected in every single one of my art classes. I eventually stopped taking them, because I had been doing C&I for five years; in class, we studied how to use tracing paper. For weeks at a time. Every year. Not that tracing paper use is not a valuable skill, but... Anyway, my humble request to you is this: Since not all of us will be able to come to Atlantia (Wherever that is :), I ask that you place a copy of your course materials and text on the web. Scanning images is not a problem; many of us have scanners and could use them in your defense. In addition, if you aren't fluent in HTML, many of us are skilled in that area as well. I would urge any of you who teach courses to consider placing them on the web. To those of you who have, thank you. Reed's Celtic Knotwork course has been particularly helpful to me. These net courses are a boon to those of us who live out in the boonies and have inactive SCA groups nearby. Thank you (for listening to my senseless ramblings), Hammurabi Once known as Ian Snowowl in days of yore. - ---------------------------- Hollis Easter hollis@slic.com "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world: indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead, anthropologist Yes, I did get a perfect score on my SAT-I's... See the picture at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/2436/SAT52698.gif - ---------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:53:42 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Dip vs. Cartridge > Thomas Brownwell wrote: > > > > Mistress Eowyn described how she fills her pen. Does everyone strop their pen > > on a piece of scrap paper before continuing after a refill? > >>> and Thorfinn replied: > Yes I "strop" my nib after I have filled it by dipping. I use a Brause > usually a 0.5 or 0.75 mm one. The strop I use is a cut edge of a piece of > blotting paper. I also wipe the internals of the nib after every third or > fourth refill with the corner of a piece of blotting paper. I usually cut > the bloting paper down to 10 mm by 30 mm pieces to give me lots of edges and > corners and small pieces to go inside the nib. I also clean the nib with on > some 1200 grit before starting and if the nib has dried out. I still have > written over 250 words in one evening as well as seting up the page. - - - - - - - I'm one of those people who learned to use a brush to load my nibs, but if I do get lazy and dip a pen, then I usually "shake" out the extra ink like I do when I load it with a brush. My instructor had us over-load with the brush, and then sort of snap the wrist to shake out the excess. It seems to work for me. I cannot say that this was how it was actually done in period, however. I was also taught (and it seems to work quite well) to clean my nibs well between uses, and then to give them a Gum Arabic rub down just before use again. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL Seneschale of the Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom ~~ Vert, a unicorn head couped close Argent, crinned and armed Or, and in sinister, a gore Or ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:53:50 -0400 (EDT) From: hollis@slic.com Subject: [scribes]: Celtic Knotwork Site In answer to a request for this address, I'm reposting an earlier message to the list. Hammurabi ============= To all-- Lady Elisabeth de Gerdeston suggested I post to you a notice of a Web site containing some Celtic knotwork examples and instruction. The knotwork construction information is based on an Introductory Knotwork class I gave at Pennsic in 1993. The URL is: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/4748/index.html [Please forgive the Geocities pop-up advertisement :-( If I find another free site without such junk, I'll move...] If knotwork is an area of interest to you, please take a look and let me know what you think. Thanking you for your time, I remain, In your service, Rolin Thurmundsson mka Reed Mihaloew mihaloew@mitre.org ================ - ---------------------------- Hollis Easter hollis@slic.com "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world: indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead, anthropologist Yes, I did get a perfect score on my SAT-I's... See the picture at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/2436/SAT52698.gif - ---------------------------- ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #140 *****************************