From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #131 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 131 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: My doantion to the view (long) Re: [scribes]: Patent vs Loose [scribes]: Page order question Re: [scribes]: Page order question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 03:52:18 -0400 From: Lea Viljanen Subject: Re: [scribes]: My doantion to the view (long) >For those not into the little details of Calligraphy, my >humble apologies. But for one thirsting for information, this lesson was just excellent. The piece in one window and the commentary in another, wow what a distance learning experience! Thank you both the scribe and the commenter, this was indeed a very valuable thing you have contributed! - -- Kerttu Katariinantytar Roisko Or, a tri-corporate ladybug aka Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen gules and sable. Lea.Viljanen@iki.fi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:53:10 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Patent vs Loose Greetings Thomas and the list, I have had the pleasure of viewing a video made in England of the supposedly last two hand pounders of gold leaf (I don't know if that is a true fact or just hype). It is amazingly done. These two men -- who are not big burley guys -- are VERY good at this Very boring job. Their video showed them using old manuscript pages cut into about (I'm guessing here) 6-inch squares. I'd guess they were stacked about 100 or so high. They took an ounce of gold and ran it through a press until it was about an inch wide, which was then cut into 1-inch squares. These squares were put between the pages. They then had two slip-covers of vellum pre-made that went on at right angles to each other. The wooden mallet they used was as big around as the vellum squares (about 6") and had a very short handle. They turned the stack a quarter turn after each hit. There was no stopping between hits, so this took a LOT of hand and eye coordination!!! Once they got the gold to the point where it had stretched to the full size of the 6-inch squares (I think they just know this by feel and LONG experience), they stop and give the stack to a young woman who took each leaf out and cut them into quarters (like Thomas says the gal at SEPP described), and the process was begun again. I think this was done at least one more time (I'm not sure anymore, as it has been over two years since I saw the video). Anyway, I sure would not want to have that job ... it was very, very, very boring. I just love the end product!! KHvS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:02:58 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: [scribes]: Page order question Greetings one and all. I need to know which is more common: do books start on the verso or the recto? i.e. Is the first page, with primary illumination, on the first even page or the first odd page (using the modern page-numbering convention). I've only held two or three period books in my hands, and of those I can only remember this particular detail for one (it started on the recto). And if a book starts on the recto, then on which page should I place full-page borders for the rest of the book, assuming I'm going to only border every other page -- or does it matter? For reference on the time-period, I'm reproducing the style of Eadui Basan, c. 1012-1023, with illuminated borders as depicted in the Decorated Letter, plate 16, and calligraphy as depicted in Stan Knight's Historical Scripts, plate C8 -- both are from the Arundel Psalter. Your comments will be most welcome. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:47:47 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Page order question In a message dated 7/2/98 7:10:07 AM, brownwell@home.com wrote: << I need to know which is more common: do books start on the verso or the recto? i.e. Is the first page, with primary illumination, on the first even page or the first odd page (using the modern page-numbering convention).>> It is my understanding that medieval books, like the modern ones that evolved from them, started with the text on the recto, with often a carpet page or portrait on the verso facing the first text page. This provides a double-page spread when both are used, but both need not be used. But the mss. I have seen seem to universally start the text on the recto, where a first page survives (it is often ripped away with the gorgeous binding, like in the Book of Kells). To summarize: Text starts on the right. Illumination may or may not be present on the left. Eowyn Amberdrake ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #131 *****************************