From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #130 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 130 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: re: tracing [scribes]: Catherine of Cleeves Hours Re: [scribes]: My doantion to the view (long) Re: [scribes]: Light Tables [scribes]: Tracing paper [scribes]: re: tracing, thanks RE: [scribes]: re: tracing Re: [scribes]: re: tracing Re: [scribes]: Light Tables Re: [scribes]: Light Tables Re: [scribes]: Patent vs Loose ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:53:25 +0100 From: David Columbus Subject: Re: [scribes]: re: tracing >Hello again. How does one do pin-prick tracing without the powdered stuff >filling in the entire area under the paper? Please? > >I tried tracing something for a scroll yesterday (140lb paper is a bit thick >for light tables to be useful, which is why I don't generally trace), and >the whole sheet is now covered with graphite dust, as are the table, the >walls, a clarinet, not to mention the kitty footprints all through the >house..... > >Thanks for any info, opinions, etc > >Hugs > >Felicity Blindshooter, in Mycghalh There is a wonderful way to MAKE your own transfer paper which turns out better than anything you can buy on the markert. I learned this from one of my teachers in school. It requires a sheet of rag marker paper (or heavy tracing paper), a 2B pencil, some bestine rubber cement thinner, a cotton ball, and a pair of latex gloves. First, use the pencil to completely cover one side of the paper. Try to get a good layer of graphite on the paper. The more even the layerm the better the end result. When this is done, put on the latex gloves. Do this BEFORE handling the bestine! Get the cotton ball wet with some bestine (not a lot, but enough to moisten the cotton ball). Slowly, but firmly move the cotton ball around the paper to spread the graphite. As this is done, you will notice the paper developing a shine. Test the paper to see if any of the graphite rubs off. If it does, use a little more bestine on the cotton ball. When you have finished, you will own the best transfer paper ever. It will not smear, leave any graphite floating around and it will seem like it lasts forever (I've been using the same piece for over four years now). ***** Now for the health warning. Bestine is a solvent. Do this in a well ventilated area only and be careful about contact with skin and eyes. If you have any problems with this type of material, then don't try this at home. ***** Christofano ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:33:31 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: [scribes]: Catherine of Cleeves Hours In case anybody is interested, while browsing through Ebay's auction listings I noted that there is a copy of the Hours of Catherine of Cleeves up for sale. Minimum bid is $10 and no bids have been received yet and there isn't a reserve. If you're interested go take a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=19339579. (I don't know if this link will work for you since my email program won't actually let me connect to the internet from my desk, but this *is* the correct URL. Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:11:36 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: My doantion to the view (long) Greetings Piers from Thomas in sunny Calafia, where the sun never -- no, always shines :-) I'm going to comment on the calligraphy since that's my specialty. The hand you've used is probably from a modern book or from a modern typeface, because it uses several specific letter shapes that are not period. The first is the "n" with the undertow. That, from my understanding, was an error in transcription on the part of the "god" of modern calligraphy, Edward Johnston, who did a lot to inspire the resurgence of beautiful writing at the turn of this century but got a few things wrong. In this case, the letter he misread was actually an "r", and if you make the vertical stroke a little longer, you'd have it perfectly. The "n" should instead have the shape of the Roman Capital "N", the standard "n" shape, or the funky one that looks like a stunted "H" with it's feet cut off. All of these shapes were around in early period, and it's not uncommon to see the funky and the standard "n" in the same document. The earlier you go, the more likely you'll find the Capital "N". The second letter is the "t". The round-bottomed "t" did not extend through the flat top except for a very short period (Early Gothic, about 1000-1100 AD), and even then it was an extremely subtle effect, just barely peeking above, and only done by a few scribes. It wasn't until the true Gothic Blackletter hands showed up in 1200 or so that the "t" sticks up over the cross, but by that time the letter itself had a straight back, not the gentle curve of the earlier hands. The third letter is the "g". Yours has the typical round part with the curved descender that became common in about 1300. Before that there were two common forms. The first and earlier is essentially an open capital "G" (but small, of course), with a tag descender, either gently curved, or bowled like yours. The other is a wierd letter that looks like a script "z", flat topped with a long curvy descender that was used in all Insular hands. In some examples the best description of it would be a large "5" whose bottom curve lies completely below the line. Some other observations: Dotting the "i" is a modernism, but it's one that is not glaringly so. I'll sometimes do it just for the fun if I know the intended reader is mundane (like flyers, notices, etc). In general, though, the "i" doesn't get dotted until well into this millennium, with the early examples being from around 1300 AD or so. The only reason it got the tag was to distinguish "in" from "ni", "iu", "iv", "vi", "ui", and of course, "m". Obviously that wasn't a problem in any Uncial hand, but it was a very real difficulty in the condensed, straight-backed Gothic hands. The tag at the end of the last stroke of the "m" is actually found quite frequently, though not as exaggerated, and only on "m"s that have essentially straight limbs. The under-curved one you've used with the straight left and middle legs can be found in Half-Uncial, around the 6th - 8th C. Contemporaneously one finds the more widespread use of fully rounded "m"s in the true Uncial hands. I wouldn't curve the tail of the "y". Early examples of it have thin, long right-hand strokes. I wouldn't curve the "h" so strongly that it seems to close on itself into a "b". I'd probably have made the "k" a descender, in line with the "r" and "f". Your hand and mine have the same trouble keeping verticals/ascenders straight up. That comes with practice and with moving your hand more often (every couple of letters instead of every word). The only reason that this hand looks like it slants is because of the steeply curved parts of the "m", "n", and "h". By eliminating the bit sticking above the "t", and either straightening the "m" or curving both sides of it, your hand will immediately appear to be more vertically consistent. I'd have done the date in Roman numerals all the way: "done this day *xxvii* june, anno societatis *xxxiii*", with the asterisks / dots to separate the numbers from the text (a period practice). What I *do* really like: Your letters are very consistent in height. I presume that you ruled both tops and bottoms of the "n" height, and you stuck to that very well. I like your use of the colors in the letters. They are the right shades and look *exactly* like several examples I've recently looked at. Your round strokes are very clean and consistent, and the "a" looks great (I'd give it the slightest protuberance on the upper part of the vertical, but there are period examples of both styles). Your "e" has a very nice top loop, and your horizontal stroke is beautifully thin and just the right height above the bottom line. Your "d" looks better than mine -- I can never get the back of the bowl to look right. The "spark" or "estencil", the three dots at the end of your line, are great. A few more of them wouldn't be remiss. I like the scroll filling the last line, though I probably would have done it in red (the Celtic scribes liked that). Wow, that was long. For those not into the little details of Calligraphy, my humble apologies. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:25:34 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Light Tables In a message dated 98-07-01 17:43:34 EDT, brownwell@home.com writes: << A number of my friends use a window or door. >> In which case you'll get a real sunburn.... :) Thomas is correct, and the tube isn't made to work in that position really-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:41:49 -0400 From: Elyse Boucher <70521.3645@compuserve.com> Subject: [scribes]: Tracing paper Howdy from Merouda. Spent a short time unable to post; I have several missives in my "sent" box that I may try to repost soon.... then again, maybe I won't... But I did want to pop into this discussion and tell you this: According to an anon. tract published in 1573 called _The Art of Limming_ (which is not the same as Hilliard's _Art of Limming_), one could "take the form of a letter or a vignette without harm" by tracing, and gives a method for making what is litterally carbon paper. Quickly summerized, the process was to take a piece of paper, hold it over a candle at a height that will allow the formation of soot but not so close that you'll set fire to the paper, collect the soot on the paper, put the clean side of the paper behind the thing you want to trace, put the paper to receive the image next to the sooted side, place the whole thing down, amd use a hard point of some sort to trace around that which you would copy. This particular tract also give instructions for using graphite (as a pigment), so one could conceivably argue the possibility that someone might have thought about rubbing graphite over the back of the paper instead of using the candle soot collection thing, but I myself would merely suggest that graphite paper is a modern equivelant of a method known to be in use during the later portions of our period were I to use this info in A&S documentation. :) There are also some methods for making a clear tracing paper in Cennini (Craftsman's Handbook, easily available) and at least one other tract (printed as part of Merrifield, which I haven't gotten a hold of yet), but these seem to involve procedures that are too darn bothersome for me to try right now. :) So there you go, FWIW. :) Yours, Merouda Merouda Pendray: Caer Anterth, Northshield, Middle. (Elyse C. Boucher: West Allis, Wisconsin, USA) Per pale sable and Or, a gryphon segreant countorney within an orle of feathers counterchanged. "Semper ubi sub ubi" http://members.tripod.com/~Pendray/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:15:05 -0300 From: Guy & Sharon Campbell Subject: [scribes]: re: tracing, thanks Thanks, all you folks who offered solutions to my problem. It now looks like I'll be able to get this scroll done in time...with a nifty miniature :~). Thanks again. Hugs Felicity ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:10:12 -0500 (CDT) From: daffy + chiara Subject: RE: [scribes]: re: tracing Has anyone tried transferring an image the way medieval scribes did it? They applied powdered bole to the back of their "design page" and transferred it to the parchment. Then they traced this bole design with ink--grey if the lines were not meant to appear in the finished product, black if they were. The bole residue was then erased with bread crumbs. I don't know how well this would work with w/c paper, though...:] Chiara da Ravenna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:49:03 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: re: tracing In a message dated 98-07-02 00:20:10 EDT, daffyd@worldpath.net writes: << Has anyone tried transferring an image the way medieval scribes did it? They applied powdered bole to the back of their "design page" and transferred it to the parchment. Then they traced this bole design with ink--grey if the lines were not meant to appear in the finished product, black if they were. The bole residue was then erased with bread crumbs. I don't know how well this would work with w/c paper, though...:] Chiara da Ravenna >> I have and it's messy ruddy powder eveywhere.......breadcrumbs might work or a pumice loaf (which I'm working on have a 1 pound coffe can of Mt. St. Helen's pumice)-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:09:32 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: Light Tables My table is measured for comfortable height while sitting in the Art Chair (tm), with the plexiglass top at the Correct Angle for me. The plexiglass is 3/4 inch clear. I use a portable xray viewer florescent light, laying on the floor, for the light source. Dont need vents, since the florescent creates little to no heat. Using the portable xray box also means the light is turned on by a handy push-in switch aka foot activated. No more inconvenient bending. Aftermarket accessories include a ledge for attaching swing arm lamps and a pen/brush dish. Oh, it also has a lip around the edges (taller at the bottom) for when I drop pens so they dont roll off onto the carpet. Handmade by the exhusband, lasted 13 years so far. Good luck!! Aidan hollis@slic.com wrote: > > Dear scribes, > > I am desperately in need of information about the design of light tables. > I'm working on a rather large celtic knotwork carpet page, and my current > light table is the living room end table. It's about a foot off the floor. > For a 6'0" large guy, this gets... cramped... after a while :) > > Anyway... What I'm thinking is a sheet of plexiglass, either frosted or > clear, perhaps 24" x 26". This would be set in a wood box with a > fluorescent light fixture inside, with vents inside to let out the heat. > > Anyone with suggestions, I'd appreciate them. > Hollis > Once known as Ian Snowowl in days of yore. > ---------------------------- > Hollis Easter > hollis@slic.com > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens > can change the world: indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." > -- Margaret Mead, anthropologist > > Yes, I did get a perfect score on my SAT-I's... See the picture at: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/2436/SAT52698.gif > ---------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:13:52 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: Light Tables FITCHYBEAR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-06-30 15:36:44 EDT, Varju@aol.com writes: > > << It works quite > well, unless the cat crawls under it and blocks my light. > > Noemi > >> > shave the cat-JimBear Now thats an entirely new kind of fun! Aidan whyisthecathidingheimer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:04:01 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Patent vs Loose Hammurabi privately e-mailed me to ask a very useful question: How is leaf manufactured. According to Rose Folsom in "The Calligrapher's Dictionary", standard loose gold leaf is 1/275,000 of an inch thick. How is it done??? First roll the gold out until the metal is as thin as you can get. Then lay the gold between layers of soft animal skin and/or intestine and beat it with a hammer. As you beat, the leather stretches along with the gold, so I presume that they go through a *lot* of leather. As the gold thins and spreads, cut it into quarters and do it again. Eventually a one ounce cube of gold can be flattened into 2000 standard leaves. Apparently the sheets of paper that separate the gold leaves and prevent them from sticking to each other are coated with Armenian Bole, hence the slight pink color. Ms. Folsom notes that Loose gold is superior in shine and gives a finer finish than Transfer (Patent) gold, though she doesn't say why. She also notes that Double gold is easier to handle because of its thickness. On a related topic, she also notes that Gold Powder is a natural by-product in Gold Leaf manufacture. She says that gold leaf or the Skewings (the stuff that comes off when you brush the excess gold off your page) can be made into shell gold very easliy. Place the gold in a mortar, add a quarter teaspoon of salt, three or four drops of honey, and enough water to lubricate (?). Grind with a *glass* pestle for 10-15 minutes. Fill the mortar with water and swirl it around until it's completely mixed (don't stir?). Let the gold settle, then drain off the excess liquid. Repeat 4 or 5 times, then let the gold dry in the mortar. Melt a small gelatin capsule in a teaspoon of warm water and add to the gold, stir thoroughly and pour into a permanent container where it will be ready to use. If you let it dry, then just reconstitute it with water. She also says that you can substitute fish glue or gum arabic for the gelatin. Finally this mixture is usually sold as Shell Gold because it was traditionally sold on half a mussel shell. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #130 *****************************