From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #1269 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, December 21 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1269 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: This and that... Re: [scribes]: This and that... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:14:46 -0800 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: This and that... >> Your statements about "chain" stores concerns me. They are real frame shops,<< Then they should act like one. >> but it takes a lot of experience to be able to figure out what the proper procedure should be for every piece of art that comes through the door. << It also takes a certain amount of common sense. One doesn't agree to vacuum mount something that goes into a shadow box, do they? Regardless of what the customer asks for - after all, they could be uninformed. >> Art that is to be vacuum mounted (I call it dry mounted in a heated vacuum press) can be especially confusing to new workers. There are a multitude of papers, inks, paints, and photo finishes that can be damaged if they are put into a heat press and it is the responsibility of the framer to find out as much as he or she can to insure that the artwork isn't ruined. If a poster is rolled before it is mounted it can pose a whole new set of problems. Trying to unroll it without creasing it is the main concern, trying to keep it flat while it is being put into the press is another. I could go on and on.<< Agreed. What concerned me so much was that I took the piece in *flat* - it had been rolled at one point (when my own client gave it to me to frame for him) but I left it unrolled in a flat box with some weight on it for over a month before taking it into the store. It had only a very slight curl to one side - less than 1/2 inch off the table when laid flat. And they kept asking me over and over again if this was original art because "we don't frame original art anymore" (well, if you don't then why do you advertise it?), when it as very obviously a poster of some sort (it had a large white border around the colored section of the art with a title printed on it). >> There are also certain legal issues at work here when it comes to original art or signed and numbered prints. When you have something dry mounted, an art dealer would consider it permanently altering the art. Conceivably, you could come back to the frame shop at a later date and sue them for devaluing your art. Michaels has decided to avoid the issue altogether by refusing to do it. I don't blame them. << Vacuum mounting original art isn't recommended (like I stated) for that very reason. And I wouldn't have minded so much if they had just said something to the effect of "We don't recommend dry mounting original art, and we won't do it for these reasons...". But the Aaron Brothers near me started out saying they wouldn't vacuum mount it, then said they wouldn't frame it at all if it was original art. They only agreed to do the piece after making me sign some sort of release for it (it was an *obvious* poster for bloody sake!!! It had a copyright on it. And I kept telling them that I was framing it myself so that wasn't their problem). Maybe they were just having an off day or something, or maybe their good framers were out that day. But I won't be going back there again for anything to do with framing. I'll go to my dedicated little independent store - it's a lot farther away, but they've never hesitated to do things I've asked them for, or explain why it can't be done and suggest alternatives. >> You may also want to consider what time of year it is. << This was over 2 months ago, sometime in October, so time of year was not a factor. I only just remembered it last night when I was putting the wrapping paper from Papyrus into my flat file to make sure it stayed flat before I can get it mounted. Tweaked my memory. I'm not saying all Aaron Bros are bad - maybe it's just the one near me. I'd still advise caution when taking stuff to a chain because they tend to have a high turnover and less experienced staff, in my own experience, than some of the independents. I should have just told them to stuff it when they started on about "original art" and left, because it makes me nervous when someone can't tell original art from a copyrighted poster, but I was in a hurry to get it done. I don't think they believed me even after I pointed out the copyright to them. Sheesh, what would it have taken? Tetchubah of Greenlake, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 01:20:56 EST From: MiLadyGbr@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: This and that... In a message dated 12/20/99 7:26:06 PM Central Standard Time, Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com writes: << >> Your statements about "chain" stores concerns me. They are real frame shops,<< Just because they don't act like your local shop doesn't mean they aren't acting like a "real" frame shop. It does sound as if you got an uninformed framer that day. >> but it takes a lot of experience to be able to figure out what the proper procedure should be for every piece of art that comes through the door. << Why not vacuum mount something that goes in a shadow box, as long as it is flat art. Photos with a high gloss surface often stick to the glass if you don't mat them. Why not vacuum mount them and put them in a shadow box to avoid the problem. I do it all the time. Dumb employees abound at this time of year. October is prime seasonal help time. October is really the start of the Christmas framing season, too. Michaels does 50% of their business in the last three months of the year and they usually stop taking Christmas orders after Dec. 5th. Unfortunately it is usually the new people that work the counter while the experienced people are actually doing the orders. >> Art that is to be vacuum mounted (I call it dry mounted in a heated vacuum press) can be especially confusing to new workers. There are a multitude of papers, inks, paints, and photo finishes that can be damaged if they are put into a heat press and it is the responsibility of the framer to find out as much as he or she can to insure that the artwork isn't ruined. If a poster is rolled before it is mounted it can pose a whole new set of problems. Trying to unroll it without creasing it is the main concern, trying to keep it flat while it is being put into the press is another. I could go on and on.<< You obviously got an inexperienced person. Any idiot should be able to recognize a poster when they see one. I have never heard of Michaels refusing to frame original art, either. That's ludicrous. They will refuse to dry mount a poster that has a real signature on it though. >> There are also certain legal issues at work here when it comes to original art or signed and numbered prints. When you have something dry mounted, an art dealer would consider it permanently altering the art. Conceivably, you could come back to the frame shop at a later date and sue them for devaluing your art. Michaels has decided to avoid the issue altogether by refusing to do it. I don't blame them. << Every body signs the same release, whether your art was worth two dollars or two thousand. They should ask you to take it home until all their supplies come in if it is worth over $250, though. At least that's what we are required to do at Michaels, I can only assume their insuance is the same as ours. Anything that goes into the back room, whether they actually put it into a frame or not is subject to the same standards. If you asked them to vacuum mount an original that you intended to frame yourself they still shouldn't do it. >> You may also want to consider what time of year it is. << Like I said, October and November are prime Christmas/Hanukah/whatever framing season months. I understand completely. Ask for the framing manager if you should ever decide to go back. Or call ahead and find out when they will be in. The department manager should be able to give you excellent service. This is good advice for anyone taking anything to be framed anywhere. Ask for the person with the most experience, always. If you would like to voice your concerns to the company I can find out who you should talk to, or you could phone the store manager and let them know what happened. I know I appreciate it when someone lets me know when my framers do something stupid. Gabrielle, Northsheild, again >> ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #1269 ******************************