From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #118 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, June 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 118 In this issue: Re: Re: [scribes]: Calligraphy fonts Re: [scribes]: Technical Pen vs. Crowquill Re: Re: [scribes]: Calligraphy fonts Re: [scribes]:How to hold the arm?(was printed text?) Re: [scribes]: Calligraphy fonts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:47:28 EDT From: Luiseach@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [scribes]: Calligraphy fonts In a message dated 06/27/98 03:31:06, Thomas Brownwell wrote: <> I'd vote for Merovingian, personally. Actually, Roman Rustica with the pen at about an 85 degree angle is *real simple* too. Luighseach ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:58:25 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Technical Pen vs. Crowquill Greetings unto my colleagues and to Hammurabi in particular I prefer to use a technical pen when I do everything from general outlining to entire scroll layouts pre-outlined, especially Celtic. I am comfortable using a crow-quill but it *is* more of a pain/hassle so I only use it on special scrolls. I do *NOT* recommend using a nylon-tip pen because the ink is *not* made out of carbon black which is permanent. Instead, almost all modern pens use a composite dye made of a mixture of blue and red inks to produce black. Here's a neat demo for all of you curious folk out there. Take a coffee filter, one of the ones that are flat for the majority of the center. Choose a wide mouth glass and then trim off the filter so it is just a bit larger than the glass. Now, cut a tongue in the filter that extends inward to the center, making the tongue about 1 cm wide (1/2 in) and 6 cm long (2-3 in). Now, at the point where the tongue joins the remainder of the filter, draw a thick/solid line of your favorite ink all the way across the tongue. Now, fill the glass with distilled/filtered/tap water, and set the tongue carefully down into the glass. Put it aside to soak over night, and come back the next day to check it out. What will you see? You should have a wonderful rainbow of rings extending out into the filter, with each color being a different component of your favorite ink. Some are bluer, others redder. It's way cool and very instructive about the make-up of modern inks. Anyway, the point of this is that the typical Pilot nylon tip pen uses *dye*, not *ink*, and most of the components of the dye are fugitive, i.e. not light permanent. This means that the dye will change color over time as the more fugitive component fades first leaving behind the more permanent. As time continues its inexorable march, the other components will fade too, leaving an unsightly mess and a lot of wasted effort. For permanent works of art one must use carbon based permanent inks, which lay down carbon black suspended in a water, gum or shellac solution. Most technical pens can handle special permanent inks that use ultra-fine carbon that won't jam up the tip. *All* calligraphy inks (black only, of course) use carbon in one form or another and should be fine in a crow-quill. As for the bleeding problems, most paper has some wrinkling to it which allow it to barely touch the edge of a raised ruler (I had a dickens of a time with Parchment, as it buckled up horribly and I had to do all of the lines very slowly, holding down the edge of the vellum carefully for each line). I recommend trying to raise the edge of the ruler even further by adding a few layers of tape to the cork that's already there, or a few (three ?) pennies to the bottom, to raise it even further. The guide will work even if it's a good 1/4 inch off the page so don't be afraid of raising it too high. Then try it on a test sheet to see if it's all fixed. Another possibility is that the amount of ink that flows from the pen. When I outline I use Rapidograph pens, and I use the *very* smallest one I can which is the 000, 3x0 or 0.25 mm tip. Remember that these lines are usually supposed to be very subtle, just barely highlighting the transition from one color to another. If you don't overdo it by using a nib that's too wide the effect will be better, not worse. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:03:42 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: Re: [scribes]: Calligraphy fonts I originally wrote: "So let's see a show of hands, shall I do a scroll for him in Merovingian, or heaven forfend, Luxeuil Minuscule just to show him what easy is???" and Luighseach replied: "I'd vote for Merovingian, personally. Actually, Roman Rustica with the pen at about an 85 degree angle is *real simple* too." Well, I can do that too, as it's *even simpler*. Any more suggestions. How about a scroll with headers in Roman Rustica, and body in Luxeuil? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:31:29 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]:How to hold the arm?(was printed text?) David Columbus wrote: {snipped lots of good stuff] > > Now that I've said all this, I've seen some people do the finger moving > method and produce wonderful results with it. Honestly, I don't know how > they do it. But I just know that I can't seem to get the hang of moving > the fingers only. ******************** My friend, Master Daniel filz Aaron does his calligraphy standing up! at a slanted table, and he does the most perfect batarde; I know instantly when I see his work that it is him. He's tried for years to get me to work this way, which of course produces the whole arm moevement you were describeing, But I can't seem to do it. Make me stand up and I'm shaking and wobblying all over. I do the finger only thing and as long as I remember to move my body or my paper as I go, so physically I'm writing in one spot without moveing too far in any direction to cause pen angle changes, it looks pretty good. Mairi, Atenveldt {who despite being Kingdom Scribe, will never be the artist Daniel is.} ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:36:01 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: Calligraphy fonts Thomas Brownwell wrote: > > Hi there gang. Master James (aka the Fitchmeister) has made an important point > that *all* hands are equally easy. *********** ******************************* Hi Thomas & all. Well,....sort of. Once I learned one, it wasn't hard with some practice to get the hang of others, but I have phisical limitations that make some hands *a lot* harder than others. Anything with a lot of pen twists, like Rustica or Batarde, make my wrist hurt, so I don't do them and while Luxiel may look cool to some I don't really care for it. Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #118 *****************************