From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #103 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, June 23 1998 Volume 02 : Number 103 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Re: [scribes]: Aquarelle? Re: [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) Re: [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) Re: [scribes]: A question from JimBear....... Re: [scribes]: Catalogs [scribes]: Geographic Trends Re: Re: [scribes]: Aquarelle? Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal soapbox, thank you's, etc. Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal Re: [scribes]: scrolls as thank yous Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Re: [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) [scribes]: Award Medallions for AOA(was R.E. Scribes...) Re: [scribes]: Aquarelle? Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Re: [scribes]: Award Medallions for AOA(was R.E. Scribes...) Re: [scribes]: Color repro in facsimiles Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal Soapbox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:42:52 -0700 From: Gael Stirler Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias (Regarding the questions of why most calligraphers are women in the mundane calligraphy clubs and that men in the SCA seem to achieve Lauralate for C&I more quickly than their female counterparts.) In general society we get our first exposure to calligraphy in school at a time when statistically boys are having a hard time controlling the small muscles that are used in handwriting and girls have very good control. This gives the girls a positive association with calligraphy and the boys, in general, feel negatively towards it. The boys that do well in these early experiences with handwriting typically have less interest in skills that take strength and large motor skills. This gives them more time to develop their talents. Since boys are more competitive, they also tend to stick with the things they do well and drop the things where they are not "the best". Girls, on the other hand, who excel in calligraphy may also excel in other things. In fact, they probably excel in so many things that they spread their time across many different interests. They get their pleasure not just from accomplishment adn recognistion but from learning, sharing, and trying new things. Therefore, it is in the natural balance of things that women will develop more varied skills than men, but men will master their chosen art faster than the women. As in all conclusions based on statistics there are notible acceptions. I am referring only to generalities. Sincerely Lady Dairine - -- Gutenberg school of Scribes http://renstore.com/articles/GSS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:40:32 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs In a message dated 98-06-22 05:35:14 EDT, Lea.Viljanen@nixu.fi writes: << Is there a book or some other information source around, which tells us how to make gouaches/paint from pigments & gum arabic? I have got the Cennini, but I don't recall it mentioning anything about boiling and mulling. I have tried a clueless experiment with just mixing terre vert and gum arabic, but needless to say, it wasn't that successfull. All information gratefully accepted and appreciated by a beginning scribe. There aren't any handy laurels around here. -- Kerttu Katariinantytar Roisko Or, a tri-corporate ladybug aka Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen gules and sable. Lea.Viljanen@iki.fi >> Oooops.....actually yes there are..... right off hand, I don't have it with me but Methods and materials of medieval painting by Daniel V. Thompson should have recipies.... question: did you use already prepared gum arabic? If you did, I think the dilution might be wrong...it seems to me that a 35% or greater solution of gum arabic must be used and no it isn't boiled(bad phrasing on my part) I was talking about the preparation of gum arabic(in a double boiler so actually only water gets boiled).......I will post tommorrow with a cool recipe of it..........JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:40:34 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Aquarelle? In a message dated 98-06-22 07:13:08 EDT, bibksat@Lisen.bibks.uu.se writes: << On Sun, 21 Jun 1998 FITCHYBEAR@aol.com wrote: Sorry if I got my terminology wrong, I'm talking about the type of watercolor paints that are so popular now a days :-) Anna de Byxe > If I remember correctly, last year at Eowyn's we had a scribal day and > someone aquarelle and asked the same question......(this is a dyestuff for > fabric right?) while the blue when extracted was a very intense aqua, it had > the properties of being a lake colour and didn't seem to have enough oomf. It > is actually easier to mix down other period colours with white to make the > aqua colour which would also have the required oomf and be less likely to be > as fugitive.........either that or I'm totally wrong about what you are asking > about-JimBear > >> I think I got that wrong not you and now that Eowyn is back, she may possibly be able to tell us what that aqua coloured stuff at her scribes day last year was.-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:59:52 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) In a message dated 98-06-22 15:33:42 EDT, EowynA@aol.com writes: << <> Primary was C&I, secondary was stained glass -- I know because it was on my promissory. <> Primary Illumination (Byzantine Icons), and I don't recall the secondary <> Primary of C&I, I think secondary of costuming, <> Primary of C&I, secondary of costuming, early period, <> Primary of C&I, secondary of costuming, <> Primary was Illumination (particularly drawing), with bardic as a secondary <>, Primary of C&I, secondary Heraldic Research, <> Agreed, but Louise's Laurel from Atenveldt was for her awesome enamelling, I believe -- no secondary formalized (though costuming, needlework, and scribal arts all spring to mind) <<.....Gwendolyn and Albra (possibly?) in secondary>> nope, neither for C nor I. And you left out: Atanielle Unesse (Illumination primary, secondary of weaving) David Fletcher Stanwood (Illumination primary, secondary of music), Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme (primary of Heraldic Research, secondary of C&I) Troy of Nodamwere (Illumination primary, I forget the secondary) Morgan Athenry for C&I, from the West Kingdom, Angela of Rosebury for C&I, secondary of costuming, Timoteus Zacharias, primary of Bookbinding, secondary of Brewing (I think that's the right order) >> Actually, what I was trying to say was that of the CALLIGRAPHY and Illumination Laurels (many of whom I also forgot....bad bear! no salmon) none were male as I thought that Fletcher, and Myself were for Illumination only......Bruce for Heraldry with his secondary being C&I-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:13:15 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) In a message dated 6/22/98 5:59:52 PM, FITCHYBEAR wrote: <> Your statement is True -- There have been no male Laurels created in Caid with a primary skill of either (Calligraphy) or (Calligraphy and Illumination).* And of the 6 Laurels created in Caid with a primary skill of Illumination only, 2 are men, which is 33 percent of that category. *Pray forgive the modern math-style punctuation, but it does make it clearer how to group the clauses. Eowyn Amberdrake, who fits in there somewhere. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:19:10 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: A question from JimBear....... My Turn!, I was in Dragon Marsh today (an SCAer owned store in Riverside, Ca) looking at cool stuff (Ulfblood The Berserker, who I mentioned last week has some of his sculptures in the store for sale in the $150.00 -$250.00 range really interesting "goblins"), and I came across porcupine quills (wow really cool! brown and white stripes, curved perfectly to fit across the hand and springy! Also a point that I could really do dammage to myself with (always a danger bonus in my book)) so I of course bought one($2.50)........now do I go about making a quill of this quill the same way as bird quills? They have a small hole in the end and are hollow, from what I could see near the tip, it didn't have the gunk that we clean out in feathers....I'm sure soaking and anealing is mandatory......I bet I can get this down to a liner (crowquill) size, but I'll try that after I get the first one done.........anyone have ideas?????-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:19:41 -0500 From: Lady Mylisant Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs FITCHYBEAR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-06-22 05:35:14 EDT, Lea.Viljanen@nixu.fi writes: > > Snipped > Is there a book or some other information source around, which > tells us how to make gouaches/paint from pigments & gum arabic? > > -- > Kerttu Katariinantytar Roisko Or, a tri-corporate ladybug > aka Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen gules and sable. > Lea.Viljanen@iki.fi > >> > snipped > Oooops.....actually yes there are..... right off hand, I don't have it with > me but Methods and materials of medieval painting by Daniel V. Thompson should have recipies.... JimBear I just bought my copy of Materials and Techniques... by Thompson and was actually dismayed by the fact that it is almost all discussion, no recipies (maybe one or two excerpts from period texts) or hands on instructional information. I was thinking that there would be, but there isn't. - -- Lady Mylisant de la Croix Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies Purpure, two natural seahorses addorsed on a point pointed argent a crescent inverted sable and on a chief triangular argent a crescent sable. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:26:58 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Geographic Trends On the other hand, one Barony, Calafia, provided 3 of the Caidan scribal Laurels, more than any other geographic entity. Tis a great shame that none of the individuals is still playing .... They appeared and disappeared at different times, so I think their geographic confluence may be happenstance, rather than synergy. Do other kingdoms notice that some Baronies/Shires/Colleges/ etc. tend to produce more recognized (either Laurel or High-Kingdom-Awards) scribes? If so, do you think this is because of the synergy of working together and learning from each other, or happenstance (such as -- the Crown has not visited in awhile, and when They do, They recognize several worthy individuals who happen to be pursuing the same art)? Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:31:15 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [scribes]: Aquarelle? In a message dated 6/22/98 5:45:43 PM, FITCHYBEAR@aol.com wrote: <> Perhaps Jim Bear was referring to the round balls of indigo I found in the Mexican Herbal section of the supermarket nearest Estrella Mt. Park a couple years ago. It was a dye, and too thin for paint without more work, but was not aquarelle (which term does not conjure forth a picture in my mind -- so I cannot comment upon it.) Is aquarelle a brand name? Eowyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:59:44 -0400 From: Pete Steiner Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Lady Mylisant, In addition to writing "Materials and Techniques..." Thompson also did a wonderful translation of Cennino Cennini's "The Craftsman's Handbook". That's where you'll find the period recipes! :> Gwer Rychen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:14:28 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal soapbox, thank you's, etc. FITCHYBEAR@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-06-18 13:10:26 EDT, francis@thibault.org writes: > > << I agree--I believe that AoA scrolls are much more important than, say, > peerage > scrolls. > >> > I think the scrolls are important at any level award, if they are important to > the reciepient-JimBear *************************************************** I have to agree with JimBear, also, many people in this kingdom *never* got an AoA scroll, so they want an extra special Peerage scroll...... Mairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:08:16 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal Laurie Jenkins wrote: big snip (We do have > medallions that are paid for by the Kingdom that are given for most > Awards, though oddly now that I think about it, there isn't one for > an AoA). ****************************************** MMMMmmmmm,What would you put on an AoA medallion, anyway? Think about it. In Atenveldt anyway, there is no way, by looking to tell if someone has an AoA or a GoA or not. You know because you know the person and saw/heard the thing done, or you are introduced to Lord so&so or His Lordship so&so.. .. . I don't know if I had a point, except that yes, AoA scrolls should perhaps be at the top of the list compared to others..... mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:53:38 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: scrolls as thank yous RenScribe@aol.com wrote: snip,snip > As long as the token is proper for the award, why not? IMHO Scrolls of some > sort should be give with AoA, GoA, Peerages and Royal Peerages. For the other > awards we have, it would be really spiff to have the badge made into something > the recipient could use. (The Laurel hood Alaric recieved was smashing!! Maybe > we could get basket hilts or vambraces with the Alce on it, a stamped leather > quiver for grand master bowman, boxes with Sycamores carved or painted on > them to help organize tools, etc...) As long as the badge of the order is on > the item, why not get creative? If someone really wants a scroll too, they > could always commission one. This is a cool idea, but do you think the general populace would go for it? > > I have been most touched in the past by seeing people called into court and > thanked with some personal token from the Royalty. and snipped again ******************** Mathghamhain & Katerina, current Crown of Atenveldt have been doing exactly this. Usually just a small gift of some sort or a token for people. Often they are new people working on their first autocrat experience, etc. I think it's the sort of thing to help encourage people to keep going. Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:12:50 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Lady Mylisant wrote: > > FITCHYBEAR@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 98-06-22 05:35:14 EDT, Lea.Viljanen@nixu.fi writes: > > > > Snipped > > Is there a book or some other information source around, which > > tells us how to make gouaches/paint from pigments & gum arabic? > > > > -- > > Kerttu Katariinantytar Roisko Or, a tri-corporate ladybug > > aka Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen gules and sable. > > Lea.Viljanen@iki.fi > > >> > > > snipped > > > Oooops.....actually yes there are..... right off hand, I don't have it with > > me but Methods and materials of medieval painting by Daniel V. Thompson should have recipies.... JimBear > > I just bought my copy of Materials and Techniques... by Thompson and was > actually dismayed by the fact that it is almost all discussion, no > recipies (maybe one or two excerpts from period texts) or hands on > instructional information. I was thinking that there would be, but there > isn't. > -- > Lady Mylisant de la Croix Hi, this was on the cyberscribes list a couple of days ago about receipts, this is NOT from me but just a cross post as ever Thorfinn, Lochac Melbourne, Australia > I love to experiment with various recipes and black walnut is one of my > favorites, especially when I got a recipe in which I didn't have to crush > the walnuts, but could just boil them! > About three weeks ago I made lampblack ink (fine soot, honey, and distilled > water), but both the ink and the inkstick "mothered in the well." > I tried it again yesterday (3 T lampblack, 2 t honey, about a half ounce of > rubbing alcohol, and a few drops of water). You don't have to cook it, but > if I had used a larger container it would have made the stirring easier. It > was still fine this morning. Hopefully the alcohol will stop the mold... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:38:52 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) In a message dated 98-06-22 21:18:11 EDT, EowynA@aol.com writes: << *Pray forgive the modern math-style punctuation, but it does make it clearer how to group the clauses. >> I group my clauses on my pauses....the right pauses and the not the right pauses.......JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:58:59 -0400 From: Pete Steiner Subject: [scribes]: Award Medallions for AOA(was R.E. Scribes...) Perhaps a pendant or medallion would be an equally beautiful badge of rank for a newly created AoA Noble. It would allow other gentles at events to recognize the recipient's new rank on sight. That stone would be a good award in court - and then a scroll could be presented at a later date. This would remove some of the scribes' pressure, and allow them have the time to produce a special scroll for those who are receiving an Award of Arms. Just my tuppence.... :-) Gwer Rychen von Bern - Lapidary and Scribe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:14:19 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Aquarelle? In a message dated 98-06-22 21:36:01 EDT, EowynA@aol.com writes: << Perhaps Jim Bear was referring to the round balls of indigo I found in the Mexican Herbal section of the supermarket nearest Estrella Mt. Park a couple years ago. It was a dye, and too thin for paint without more work, but was not aquarelle (which term does not conjure forth a picture in my mind -- so I cannot comment upon it.) Is aquarelle a brand name? Eowyn >> No it wasn't the Indigo (I ruined my mortar and pestle with that but that's another story).....someone else brought a dyestuff that was aqua in colour and she ground it up and we decided that it would act too much like a lake colour and would probably be very fugitive unless we could figure out a mordant that wouldn't mess with the other colors or the paper itself. Or I was on some sort of trip from the 60's.....JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:14:17 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal In a message dated 98-06-22 23:55:30 EDT, ladymari@cybertrails.com writes: << You know because you know the person and saw/heard the thing done, or you are introduced to Lord so&so or His Lordship so&so.. .. . >> I was always treat every individual as if they were nobility (Lord/Lady), your equal, or your better.......but never beneath you.....JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:14:16 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs In a message dated 98-06-22 23:05:27 EDT, troubadr@acsu.buffalo.edu writes: << wonderful translation of Cennino Cennini's "The Craftsman's Handbook". That's where you'll find the period recipes! :> Gwer Rychen >> Thank you !............excited Bears forget things-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:29:39 -0500 From: Lady Mylisant Subject: Re: [scribes]: Award Medallions for AOA(was R.E. Scribes...) Pete Steiner wrote: > > Perhaps a pendant or medallion would be an equally beautiful badge of rank > for a newly created AoA Noble. It would allow other gentles at events to > recognize the recipient's new rank on sight. That stone would be a good > award in court - and then a scroll could be presented at a later date. > This would remove some of the scribes' pressure, and allow them have the > time to produce a special scroll for those who are receiving an Award of > Arms. > > Just my tuppence.... :-) > Gwer Rychen von Bern - Lapidary and Scribe This thread seems interesting to me because here in Meridies a person with an AoA or GoA is recognizable because we don't allow just anyone to wear a circlet. Receiving an AoA entitles the recipient to wear an unadorned circlet of no larger than a 1/4 inch and a GoA recipient is now entitled to wear an unadorned circlet of no greater than a 1/2 inch.... Is Meridies the only Kingdom that does this? I have noticed many other Kingdoms that allow anyone to wear a circlet, but have yet to notice any that do what Meridies does. - -- Lady Mylisant de la Croix Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies Purpure, two natural seahorses addorsed on a point pointed argent a crescent inverted sable and on a chief triangular argent a crescent sable. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:18:43 -0700 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: Color repro in facsimiles Ariannawyn@aol.com wrote: > Thorfinn alluded to a common problem in his discussion of the Lindisfarne > Gospel pigments: > > < manuscript itself. The colours in the Backhouse book seem to match the colours > in the manuscript.>> > > It's *very* useful to know this (thanks, Thorfinn!), because I have yet to > figure out how to judge whether the color repro in a facsimile is accurate > without comparing it to the original. Anybody have any suggestions? As a heuristic, I'd suggest that an author like Backhouse, who actually has charge of the MS, is more likely to be able to make sure the colors match. Not sure if that comes up often enough to be worth remembering, though. ;-) /=================================================================\ |John Francis Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| |francis@thibault.org |===========================================| |Crosston, Mists, West| Any time somebody has a conditioned | |My LAN, my opinions. | response, they *always* think of Pavlov! | \=================================================================/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:24:25 -0700 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal Soapbox Barbara Webb wrote: > A minus, for me, was having my work > "disappear" - in a large Kingdom the chances of your scroll living > locally can be small, and all too often you hear nothing - no thanks, > no feedback to tell whether the recipient loves it or has just > stuck it in a drawer. I got really lucky this weekend: I was asked to deliver some signed&sealed scrolls at Crown, including the first two I did (three and five months ago), which meant I got to receive thanks personally. :-) /=================================================================\ |John Francis Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| |francis@thibault.org |===========================================| |Crosston, Mists, West| Any time somebody has a conditioned | |My LAN, my opinions. | response, they *always* think of Pavlov! | \=================================================================/ ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #103 *****************************