From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #1029 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, August 27 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1029 In this issue: [scribes]: Ancheology was [Period Pens] Re: [scribes]: Call. classes Re: [scribes]: Call. classes Re: [scribes]: Call. classes [scribes]: trying to find someone Re: [scribes]: trying to find someone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:28:06 -0500 From: Dawn Vukson-Van Beek Subject: [scribes]: Ancheology was [Period Pens] Mairi- Married to an archeologist, I can tell you there are two types of archeologists- Those who research locations or digs and thoroughly investigate (as money allows). These are academic archeologists. I know, archeologist are not just diggers, nor is the profession as romantic as Indiana Jones. There is also a type archeology that is required/requested by construction and government to determine whether a location excavated for construction is of historical significance. They are commercial archeologists whose purpose is only to determine the significance of a dig. They are not bad archeologists, but their intent, time and budget are limited. I believe the study published below would have been from the second type of archeologist. All the digs my husband has worked on are painstaking slow and careful removal of layers of earth. If the second type of archeologist didn't exist, more artifacts would be never found at all, as the construction would simply destroy everything. A poor compromise, but a compromise none the less. Clare de Saint Denis, Northshield Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:05:03 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary > Subject: [scribes]: Period Pens Hello all; thought many here would be interested in a little tidbit I just ran across. I picked up a book while I was in Ireland called : Archaeological Excavations at Patick, Nicholas & Winetavern Streets Dublin;by Claire Walsh, published 1997 by Brandon Book Publishers Ltd, Dingle, Co. Kerry and copyright Dublin Corporation 1997, ISBN 0 86322 222 7 On page 142 I found: Pen Polished goose radius. Proximal end pointed from one side, point bevelled and split to form nib. Similar to examples found in 13th and 14th century levels at Barn Road, Norwich and Canbridge (MacGregor 1985, 125). Metal examples are also known, e.g., a copper alloy pen found in the river Thames with 15th century material in 1982 (Alexander and Binski 1987, 384). Length: 115:3mm. Diameter:6.4mm. This was found in site J, in Winetavern Street and is dated to the late 12th century. The drawing is on the next page and shows a pointed pen, not square tipped with the natural end of the bone on the opposite end. Makes me wanna go get chicken for dinner.....there not being any swans handy. Very interesting book, though disappointing to realize that many arch. layers are removed by machine, resulting in some destruction. Also that they did not sample and work the entire project, just selected sites ahead of the digging equipment. They were laying new storm drains or sewers or something. Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:11:27 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Call. classes In a message dated 8/27/99 6:49:25 AM, ladymari@cybertrails.com wrote: <> You can of course do as you suggest, with information "around" the calligrapher -- setting him in his time and situation. A perfectly reasonable advanced class. Another kind of "Advanced Calligraphy" class would focus on advanced techniques for writing. Things like writing on the lines (per Stan Knight's lecture here, and also in his books, I think) pre-1220, and between (but not touching) the ruled lines post 1240. Or, choose a more challenging alphabet, and go through it letter by letter, with emphasis on what makes the writing characteristic of this particular alphabet. I've had full day courses from modern calligraphers that take four+ hours going through a single alphabet. Suggestions for said "advanced" hands might be Roman Rustic, with the "twirl", or a black letter with pen-flourished serifs. Have fun! Eowyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:47:59 -0500 From: pixel@hundred-acre-wood.com (Pixel, Queen of Cats) Subject: Re: [scribes]: Call. classes At 6:10 PM 8/26/99, Curtis & Mary wrote: >Hello wonderful list :-) Hello. It's a nifty list so far (lurking for the last week or so). > >Because I'm Kingdom Scribe everybody thinks I ought to teach >calligraphy, though I don't consider myself better than an average one; >I'm really more an illuminator. Anyway, I'm scheduled to do some >classes at a collegium in a couple weeks and would like some input on >what people *think* they are going to learn. See, what to cover in a >particular class is usually what has me stumped. Son any input would be >gratefully recieved. > >Beginning Calligraphy: This one's pretty easy, a bit of writing and >tools history along with "This is a pen....hold it like this....et/" >This one is 2 hours. Recommendations for tools would also be nice. HE Therica taught a beginning illumination class where (among) other things she showed us her trick to figuring out if a pen is really waterproof or not, and other useful tips like that. Things that are nice to know *before* you learn them the hard way. > >Advanced Calligraphy: 3 hours; This is really the one I'm stumped on. >I've though along the lines of how to cut a quill, how to make iron gall >ink, maybe a little more history, but what else do you think ought to be >in here? Flourishes and ligatures. How to make your calligraphy look more period (using Roman numerals, i instead of j, etc.) > >Dyes and Pigments; 1 hour. This one I can pretty well fill up to >overflowing, though if anyone has anything obscure or not common >knowledge, with refs. I'd appreciate it. > >Thanks, >Mairi, ATenveldt Margaret, Northshield ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:15:25 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: Call. classes Dear folks, Mairi writes about the difficulty of teaching advanced calligraphy. For one more talented as an illuminator, I can see the problem. But it is also a problem for more expert calligraphers. Calligraphing any particular hand is very simple, once you have the basics down: curves and straight lines, letter size and spacing, historical context and design, and then practice. (We'll, it's more complex than that, but not more complicated). I've been wondering about how to teach "advanced" calligraphic classes too. I know the ways that are unsatisfactory: teaching Batarde instead of Gothic, introducing abbreviations, making and using oak-gall ink. These teach just what they say. It's good to know how to make and use oak-gall ink. But the calligraphy doesn't change as a result. These courses offer breadth. But they don't offer depth. Perhaps the way to teach "advanced" calligraphy is to pose it as a "problems" course: Problems in Gothic calligraphy 1250-1400, where changes in ductus and in Gothic designs need to be incorporated. Or, Problems in English Court Hands (same period), where the difference between more and less cursive variants is explored. - -- johannes v.n. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:13:48 -0500 From: jennifer guyton Subject: [scribes]: trying to find someone Hello Everyone! I am wondering if anyone can help me? I am looking for a woman who taught a beginning Illumination class at Pennsic 27. Her name is Lady Arianwen ferch Maelgwn. She handed out small samples of the goache for us to use to paint our first scroll. The color gold that she gave us is perfect and I am unable to find it anywhere locally. I was trying to find her and her source. If you can help or know where I can get in touch with her, please let me know. Thank you. In service, Lady Caitlyn MacKenzie of Clann O'Choda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:25:45 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: trying to find someone Good Lady, If you cannot find her, might I suggest you try Talens Light Gold gouache? You can purchase it from Paper & Ink Books -- http://www.paperinkbooks.com -- paperinkbk@aol.com -- 1-800-736-7772 I have found this gouache to be not only a very good substitute for shell gold, but it goes on smoothly and covers in one coat, most of the time. It runs about $8.95 for a 22 ml tube, but it lasts a long time because of its good coverage. They also have a Deep Gold and a Silver. This may be what your instructor was using, I don't know. Good luck on finding your gold. Meisterin Katarina Helene http://www.netusa1.net/~meistern ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ----- Original Message ----- From: jennifer guyton To: Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 5:13 PM Subject: [scribes]: trying to find someone > Hello Everyone! I am wondering if anyone can help me? I am looking for a > woman who taught a beginning Illumination class at Pennsic 27. Her name > is Lady Arianwen ferch Maelgwn. She handed out small samples of the > goache for us to use to paint our first scroll. The color gold that she > gave us is perfect and I am unable to find it anywhere locally. I was > trying to find her and her source. If you can help or know where I can > get in touch with her, please let me know. > Thank you. > In service, > Lady Caitlyn MacKenzie of Clann O'Choda > > ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #1029 ******************************