From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #102 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, June 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 102 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias (Humor & sattire) Re: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions RE: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) [scribes]: mea culpa ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:37:46 -0400 From: "Jessica Wilbur" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs They have a web site too: http://www.JohnNealBooks.com - --Muireann > Brigantia, > The most comprehensive calligraphy & illumination catalog I've found so > far is the Book Arts catalog from John Neal, Bookseller. It's stuffed > full of lettering arts books, illumination books, gouache, inks, pens, > brushes - in short, everything to do with scribal arts. John either > stocks or can get all of those neat things we hear about but can never > find (Stick ink, grinding stones, prepared quills, shell gold, automatic > pens, bottled Sumi ink, dogtooth agate burnishers......) The catalog is > free (at least it was the last I knew), highly informative, and a whole > lot of fun! > Contact info: > John Neal, Bookseller > 1833 Spring Garden Street > Greensboro, NC 27403 > 910 272-6139 > > Gwer Rychen von Bern > -Peter- > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:54:13 -0700 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias (Humor & sattire) >>I'm not sure that is correct Cystennin.......all of the C&I Laurels are female I believe.... Lets see (and if I leave anyone out forgive me: Eowyn, Miriel, Tetchubah, Elyramere, Rowena, Maritza, Zenobia(now in AnTir) also not counting Louise, Because she is a demi godess in everything......Gwendolyn and Albra (possibly?) in secondary.....JimBear Laurlis Illuminati Ursus (hehe)<< Actually, even this isn't correct. I think only myself & Zenobia actually got our Laurel for C&I. Let me see - I think Eowyn once told me she actually got her Laurel for stained glass (although I may have heard wrong), which is amusing since she doesn't do it anymore to my knowledge (pity, really). Elyramere's Laurel was for early period costuming - C&I was her secondary. Maritza's Laurel was for Bardic Arts, with C&I as secondary. Lord only knows what Louise's primary was - she's sooo good at a lot of stuff and it was a long time ago. I don't think either Gwendolyn or Albra received their Laurels for C&I at all. Albra's stuff is good but she'd be the first person to tell you she's only a beginner (and she hasn't actually done anything in several years due to other commitments) and she didn't do any illumination until long after she was a Laurel. David Fletcher of Stanwood received his Laurel for C&I but he's no longer active. JimBear is our only active "official" male C&I Laurel. Bruce's Laurel was for Heraldry - his secondary was C&I. I think Damales might do the occasional illumination - it seems to me I've seen something he did, but his Laurel was for Equestrian Arts. Actually, the entire Order of the Laurel in Caid is heavily weighted toward women and I suspect that's probably true in most kingdoms. Out of 53 on the current "active" list, only 15 are male. Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid (and Secretary for the Order of the Laurel) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:16:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathleen Sperling Subject: Re: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 RenScribe@aol.com wrote: > This missive came to me through the Cyber-Scriptorium. I haven't needed to > research in this direction yet, so I don't have a clue. > > > > Would you know of anyone,(or could you post to the list) who can translate > > English into Arabic? I am more of a calligrapher and would really like to > do > > original scrolls in Arabic instead of the Anglicized Arabic I've developed. I've done a fair number of Arabic-themed scrolls since I started doing SCA C&I last year, and when I need to have Arabic language in the scroll, I do transliteration instead of translation (seeing as my written Arabic is perfectly fine, while the extent of my ability to understand and produce Arabic does't go much farther than 'the horse is running' :). What I mean by this is writing out Arabic using letters such as that if you knew how to read Arabic and just sounded out the words as they had been written, you'd be speaking in English (albeit heavily accented English, since not all sounds in English are present in Arabic and vice versa). Since transliteration is a very period practice (if you want a source for this fact, you'll have to wait until this weekend when I finish moving and unpacking the book it's in :), this suits my purposes just fine. It's real Arabic writing, not anglicized Arabic. Incidentally, though, there are some very fine anglicized Arabic hands out there (as well as some really awful ones, but hey). Cheers, Zahra al-Ishbiiliyah Incipient College of Skeldergate Ealdormere ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:00:31 -0400 From: Knott Deanna Subject: RE: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions Greetings, A couple of years ago someone wrote an article for TI which was about a = calligraphic hand that looked like it was written arabic. There is an = example of a scroll done with this hand on my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/9523/fountain.jpg This piece was done by Lord Kenrick Byrne, Eastern Crown Herald. Yours, Avelina Keyes Du Pont Pursuivant __________________________________________________________________________= _____ From: Kathleen Sperling on Mon, Jun 22, 1998 13:36 Subject: Re: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions To: scribes@castle.org; aslyn@onramp.net On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 RenScribe@aol.com wrote: > This missive came to me through the Cyber-Scriptorium. I haven't needed = to > research in this direction yet, so I don't have a clue. > > > > Would you know of anyone,(or could you post to the list) who can = translate > > English into Arabic? I am more of a calligrapher and would really = like to > do > > original scrolls in Arabic instead of the Anglicized Arabic I've = developed. I've done a fair number of Arabic-themed scrolls since I started doing = SCA C&I last year, and when I need to have Arabic language in the scroll, I do transliteration instead of translation (seeing as my written Arabic is perfectly fine, while the extent of my ability to understand and produce Arabic does't go much farther than 'the horse is running' :). = What I mean by this is writing out Arabic using letters such as that if you knew how to read Arabic and just sounded out the words as they had been written, you'd be speaking in English (albeit heavily accented English, since not all sounds in English are present in Arabic and vice versa). Since transliteration is a very period practice (if you want a source for this fact, you'll have to wait until this weekend when I finish moving = and unpacking the book it's in :), this suits my purposes just fine. It's = real Arabic writing, not anglicized Arabic. Incidentally, though, there are some very fine anglicized Arabic hands = out there (as well as some really awful ones, but hey). Cheers, Zahra al-Ishbiiliyah Incipient College of Skeldergate Ealdormere - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com with SMTP;22 Jun 1998 13:35:58 -0400 Received: from 24.4.65.87 ("port 4226"@24.4.65.87) by Sonnet.GSC.GTE.Com (PMDF V5.0-8 #17886) id <01IYJEE0G0IG001GD3@Sonnet.GSC.GTE.Com> for Knott.Deanna@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA05307 for scribes-list; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com (warlock.qualcomm.com = [129.46.52.129]) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA05303 for = ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moria.qualcomm.com (qualcomm.com [192.35.156.11]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.8.5/1.4/8.7.2/1.14) with ESMTP id KAA13903 = for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by moria.qualcomm.com id KAA21782 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.interlog.com(207.34.202.37) via SMTP by = moria.qualcomm.com, id smtpdAAA0oWU8B; Mon Jun 22 10:16:46 1998 Received: from shell1.interlog.com (kms@shell1.interlog.com = [207.34.202.8]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21531; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kms@localhost) by shell1.interlog.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27536; Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:16:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathleen Sperling Subject: Re: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions In-reply-to: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org To: scribes@castle.org, aslyn@onramp.net Message-id: = MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk X-Authentication-warning: castle.org: majordomo set sender to owner-scribes@castle.org using -f ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:29:35 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Gender Bias (Humor & satire) In a message dated 6/20/98 9:44:35 PM, FITCHYBEAR@aol.com wrote: <> Primary was C&I, secondary was stained glass -- I know because it was on my promissory. <> Primary Illumination (Byzantine Icons), and I don't recall the secondary <> Primary of C&I, I think secondary of costuming, <> Primary of C&I, secondary of costuming, early period, <> Primary of C&I, secondary of costuming, <> Primary was Illumination (particularly drawing), with bardic as a secondary <>, Primary of C&I, secondary Heraldic Research, <> Agreed, but Louise's Laurel from Atenveldt was for her awesome enamelling, I believe -- no secondary formalized (though costuming, needlework, and scribal arts all spring to mind) <<.....Gwendolyn and Albra (possibly?) in secondary>> nope, neither for C nor I. And you left out: Atanielle Unesse (Illumination primary, secondary of weaving) David Fletcher Stanwood (Illumination primary, secondary of music), Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme (primary of Heraldic Research, secondary of C&I) Troy of Nodamwere (Illumination primary, I forget the secondary) Morgan Athenry for C&I, from the West Kingdom, Angela of Rosebury for C&I, secondary of costuming, Timoteus Zacharias, primary of Bookbinding, secondary of Brewing (I think that's the right order) << ....JimBear Laurlis Illuminati Ursus (hehe) >> Welcome, Oh, illuminated Bear! (or is that Enlightened? Why do the two words not mean the same?) By my count that is 7 for C&I (primary -- all women), 6 for Illum only (primary -- 2 men), 1 for C&I (secondary-- a man), and 1 for bookbinding (primary -- a man). So that leaves Bruce, Fletcher, Timoteus, and Jim Bear as four male Laurels in the scribal arts in Caid. So it is not quite so lonely..... Eowyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:28:12 -0700 From: Carolyn_Richardson@cch.com Subject: [scribes]: mea culpa Okay, Eowyn was right - both Maritza and Elyramere were primary for C&I (or just "I" in Maritza's case). I went and dug through the files. As was Eowyn's, of course (that's what happens when you're great at everything you try - nowadays people probably think your Laurel is in needlework). Unfortunately, Troy, David Fletcher, Atanielle and Angela no longer are active in the SCA, although Troy does occasionally put in an appearance at tourneys. I was limiting it to the active Laurels. My apologies to Morgan Athenry - my brain just bleeped right over you (probably since you got your Laurel in the West). Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid (and apologetic Laurel Secretary) ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #102 *****************************