From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #100 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, June 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 100 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: painting paper help! Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Re: [scribes]: Holbein Gouaches Re: [scribes]: Congratulations Re: [scribes]: Catalogs Re: [scribes]: painting paper help! Re: [scribes]: Holbein Gouaches Re: [scribes]: books on illumination Re: [scribes]: blowing through straws Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal soapbox, thank you's, etc. Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal Soapbox Re: [scribes]: scribal soapbox ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:39:33 -0500 From: "Franchesca Havas" Subject: Re: [scribes]: painting paper help! AAkk! I got this twice! I have used this paper successfully using Hunt and Speedball nibs. Like hunt better. Unlike smoother paper I have an easier time manipulating the nib to create extremely fine lines on this particular paper. It is not difficult once you get the hang of it. The look I want is not authentic in nature but personal to the person who will hang it on her wall and enjoy it. The frame she will be using is a clear one with the pins going through the glass, no outside frame. The effect I would like is one of dyed paper up to but not including the edges. Kinda like pressed paper. Ches - -----Original Message----- From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com To: ches@io.com ; scribes@castle.org Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [scribes]: painting paper help! >In a message dated 98-06-20 21:27:05 EDT, ches@io.com writes: > ><< rough paper. > What I want to do is paint the section of the actual text in the green and > do the text in gold. What do you all suggest I use for the background green? > I really only want to do this with gouache but understand if any of you have > done this and not have it work out. Please some advice, I really will listen > and do as suggested. > > Thanks, > Ches > >> >Some stupid questions: > If the paper is really rough....how well can you callig on it in the first >place? > If you can callig on it, what effect are you trying for? > Do you want it to appear dyed like dyed vellum? > Do you want it to appear as a banner or flag? > Or do you just want to do it in his livery?-JimBear > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:15:00 -0700 From: kstoner@home.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs The Online FAQ on the scribes web site contains a whole bunch of online catalogs. Please visit it at http://24.0.173.254/ and follow the links to the FAQ and from their to the catalog page. Cystennin sends. - -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Kenneth Allen Stoner Cystennin Ap Gereint | |San Diego, CA. Calafia, Caid. | |Kstoner@Elgar.com Kstoner@home.com | |http://24.0.173.254/KenStoner.htm http://24.0.173.254/Cystenin.html | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |SCA Scribes List Coordinator. http://24.0.173.254/Scribes.htm | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:19:55 -0500 From: Lady Mylisant Subject: Re: [scribes]: Holbein Gouaches hollis@slic.com wrote: > > Dear Scribes, > > A while ago, I asked for information regarding gouaches. A >numberof you recommended Holbein Designer Gouaches. I recently was in >Montreal, Quebec, and looked at a set of these. I was alarmed to >discover that they do, in fact, use an acrylic binder. Needless to >say, this is a bad thing. > > Was I just looking at an anomalous form of Holbein? > > Hammurabi I am by no means an expert on this, but I picked up my copy of the Paper & Ink Book's catalog and found that Holbein produces "Holbein Designer's Gouache" and "Holbein Acryla Designers' Gouache" with the latter being an acrylic gouache. Maybe you picked up the acrylic version without realizing it, but I maybe wrong as I am new to all of this. Just an Educated Guess - -- Lady Mylisant de la Croix Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies Purpure, two natural seahorses addorsed on a point pointed argent a crescent inverted sable and on a chief triangular argent a crescent sable. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:41:53 EDT From: Aralyn67@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Congratulations A well deserved Vivat. These are incredibly talented folks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:39:39 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Catalogs In a message dated 98-06-21 16:16:40 EDT, uboru@pop.erols.com writes: << I'm in search of the most reasonably prices quality gouaches, brushed and other illumination matarials. Could some of you good gentles please post the addresses of catalogs which have our needed materials at good prices? Many thanks Brigantia >> in actuality how does $2.00 sound for gouache that covers approx. 100 sq. inches??? Master John the artificer sells period pigments and gum arabic.....you just have to do the boiling and the mulling...... This is not intended to be humorous or talk down to anyone......it occurred to me that we have the raw materials to make the stuff and it's so reasonably priced why not and you get to learn something too.-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:39:41 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: painting paper help! In a message dated 98-06-21 19:41:17 EDT, ches@io.com writes: << The effect I would like is one of dyed paper up to but not including the edges. Kinda like pressed paper. Ches >> My suggestion would be to get some liquid friscit(sp) and use the friscit to mask the edges you don't want "dyed"..............mix a leaf green and an oxide green so the end result is a brite green with a slightly gray undertone.........mix it with water so it is very thin and apply with a 4" bristle brush (You know those 3-4" throw away glue brushes from the wallpaper section??) apply coats until desired depth of colour is achieved....if you want to get fancy.....get a little thicker mix of the same colour and between coats stiple some of the colour on to give a vellum texture then follow up with a wash to tone it down......then iron the hell out of the paper sandwiched between two clean sheets of paper on a medium setting no steam.....Just my suggestion -JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 00:39:40 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Holbein Gouaches In a message dated 98-06-21 17:37:19 EDT, hollis@slic.com writes: << Needless to say, this is a bad thing. >> all right who's slamming acrylics again????????????????????-JimBear (doing his best to be intimidating) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:40:39 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: books on illumination You should consider Painting for Calligraphers, Marie Angel, ISBN 0-7207-1415-X, Pelham Books, London, 1984 John Neal Bookseller has this for $US 35 in his current catalogue I would recommend this one. as ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia Anna Troy wrote: > > I have several books on calligraphy, are there any tips on books that more > geared towards illumination? > > Anna de Byxe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:40:23 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: blowing through straws Barbara Webb wrote: > > > If you cut your straw in half (or even shorter), the moisture in your > > breath won't condense until it hits the size. :)--- > > > > Another tip is to use a rolled up piece of paper, not a plastic > straw/tube. If you make it a bit wider, less condensation will occur > and paper tends to absorb what condensation does occur rather > than dripping it onto the scroll. > > Caitlin I use a glass straw, so I can see the condensation forming, thus allowing clearing of the drops as ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:39:16 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal soapbox, thank you's, etc. {I'm a bit behind reading my mail,sorry if this is a dead horse} Laurie Cavanaugh wrote: > This reminds me of The Great Preprint Battle in the West back in AS > 23 or 24. In our hearts, I think that most scribes would agree that > in an ideal world, every AoA recipient would get a non-rushed, > carefully done original scroll. Yep, that would be the perfect Kingdom, what's it's name, Valhalla? > [side note that in the West at the time, and maybe still, any award > below peerage was held in absolute secrecy until the royalty gave it > out, and the idea of a roomful of scribes knowing about who was going > to get an award would have sent people into apoplexy. (I'm not > saying that's logical or right, but that's the way it was) I'll bite my tongue on my opinion of not giving the scribe's office the same courtesy as everyone else, i.e. not beleiving they are honorable and trustworthy enough to keep such a secret. Yes, most awards in Atenveldt are secrets until given, the exceptions being when the recipient has previously let it be known they would like to do a vigil should they ever be chosen to be a Peer. But there is no reason to keep such things from the scribes! Even court > members didn't know who would be getting awards that day. Even the Herald? How the heck does he make his list for court? Peerages > were also a complete secret unless the recipient wanted to tell > people. YOU mean the Recipient knew, but not anybody else?????That sure seems bassackwards to me! {pardon me, it's just a shock, no offense intended to anyone or their Kingdom}either the Crown calls you up and asks you to set a vigil at a later date giving you time to prepare and a scroll to be done or you get it right then with a prommisory OR if the Crown has had time they have already talked to me or another scribe and commisioned a "final" scroll which you get then.....BUT I Never ever heard of the recipient knowing ahead of time! Thus the West had an automatic backlog. I got around this by > quietly telling the Chief Scribe that should my good friend so-and-so > ever be offered a peerage, that I would be willing to do their scroll > for their elevation if given a couple months notice. This, with an > oath of secrecy, enabled me to do a few scrolls in advance.] I take my office a *bit* seriously, at least as far as secrecy goes. Scribes and Heralds both have to be very aware of confidentiality and keeping things to themselves. And I would, as Kingdom Scribe have to have a very strong talk with any scribe who did not keep it to themselves. But for the most part, most of the Crowns I have served have been more than willing to trust me and my staff. In fact, being some distance from the current Crown and most of the more experinced scribes the Crown has been commisioning many scrolls on their own, just letting me know that these things are being taken care of so I can concentrate on other things. Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 17:57:29 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Scribal Soapbox Barbara Webb wrote: > Anyway all that pre-amble was because one point in the message struck > me particularly: > > > > Lancelin once pointed out that the scroll isn't the > > >"gift" after all (to which I took umbrage at the time, but I now see the > > >point!) - and it wasn't in medieval times either. > > I think this is really an important point. A scroll _should_ be considered > a _document_ not a _gift_. ******************************* This is a Very True statement. Yes, people witnessed the events, but will they 5 years from now recall the date, etc.? Not likely, speaking from the point of view that over the past 8 years I witnessed all the awards given to people in my Shire and heralded several of the courts they were done in, but don't remember the details now to make sure they are in the OP correctly. that scroll is the only *legal* thing that proves the award, with date, Royalty, etc. Whether *final* or prommisory. And you are also right, most period documents of this sort are mostly writing, but many of them also conveyed rights and land & etc. that we don't do in theSCA. So we fill up space with pretty pictures which also the reason many of us hold Arts Awards....besides, ill. is more interesting than call. at least to me personally. I'm sure there are those with different opinions. Also, I'm afraid that many folks might be a tad dissapointed with a scroll that is almost all text and no picture. thus preprints are a compromise. Many regularly given Atenveldt awards as well as most prommisories are "copy & paint" scrolls. A master photocopied on good card stock with everything from just the text with space for full blown individual illumination to a complete outline of everything in the border. They are useful for training new illuminators, most people can paint inside the lines, then progress to learning diaper work, ect. Less intimidating for newbys. We have several that when painted only have a vague resemblance to each other, even tho they are really the same. Many people have thought they were complete originals, at least from a distance. Also, having a group of people who work in different styles prepare the masters means having something fresh and new on a more frequent basis. I don't know what the total solution is to "combat scribeing". Perhaps type written or computer genrated promisories ONLY to be given in court with a coupon attached at the bottom that says "Redeem this coupon with your local scribe for a scroll" :-) Mairi, Atenveldt, Ducking and running now! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 20:31:17 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: scribal soapbox daffy/chiara wrote: > > Well, maybe a soapDISH... > > I've been thinking about the lack of appreciation that there seems to > be, and I've come up with an idea. Actually here in Atenveldt a lot of people say thankyou. Even several years ago when I was new at it and just painting copy scrolls people would come up and find me {sometimes months later!] and say "thank you" > > With every scroll a scribe completes, fill out a "scroll report". snipped This is a good idea. I have personally started a file for each person I do a final Armigerous scroll for. I include not only the scroll request info--Crown, Award, date, etc. With recipients personae/personal info, but also all the layout tries, traceings, photocopies et. used to make it, along with color copy or photo of completed scroll. Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #100 *****************************