From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #92 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, June 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 092 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: blowing through straws [scribes]: books on illumination [scribes]: Bookbinders? Re: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions Re: [scribes]: books on illumination RE: [scribes]: Gender Bias Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal Re: [scribes]: books on illumination Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 03:33:47 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: blowing through straws >> If you cut your straw in half (or even shorter), the moisture in your >> breath won't condense until it hits the size. :)--- >Another tip is to use a rolled up piece of paper, not a plastic >straw/tube. If you make it a bit wider, less condensation will occur >and paper tends to absorb what condensation does occur rather >than dripping it onto the scroll. > >Caitlin I just had a flashback... Does anyone else remember paper straws? I'll bet whoever thought up the idea of blowing through a straw onto size had never even seen a plastic straw. - -Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:42:25 +0200 From: Anna Troy Subject: [scribes]: books on illumination I have several books on calligraphy, are there any tips on books that more geared towards illumination? Anna de Byxe ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' "Anna's LARP Craft Links Page" http://www.bibks.uu.se/58/home.html "Aros H=E4rads Hemsida" http://hem.passagen.se/owly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:13:46 +0200 From: Anna Troy Subject: [scribes]: Bookbinders? I was just wondering if anybody on this list works with bookbinding :-) Anna de Byxe ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' "Anna's LARP Craft Links Page" http://www.bibks.uu.se/58/home.html "Aros H=E4rads Hemsida" http://hem.passagen.se/owly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:27:00 +0100 From: David Columbus Subject: Re: [scribes]: Fwd: Persian manuscripts questions >>I have a question: How would one do the *gold >>flecking* technique found on Persian manuscripts? >>Further, if period materials cannot be currently >>found or afforded, what mundane materials may be >>substituted? The technique I was taught was called 'splattering' This involved semi-dry paint, a fairly large paintbrush, and something to protect parts of the paper you didn't want the paint to go on (frisket, masking fluid or just a good heavy cover sheet). If need be, protect any areas you don't want to be covered with the flecks. One way is to tape a heavy stock paper to your piece with lowtack tape. Mix up a batch of gold paint slightly drier than you would normally paint with. Dip a brush into the paint charging it with the paint. Place your non-brushing holding hand slightly above the paper. Now lightly bring the charged brush down striking your immobile hand. The sudden stop will cause the paint in the brush to 'splatter' out in tiny 'flecks' onto your paper. Continue doing this until you have the effect you desire. If you have taped down any cover stock, allow the paint to dry completely. Remove cover stock. When painting or calligraphing over this paint, be careful not to use too much water as it will lift the paint you have flecked. Adding a bit of glair to the flecking paint would assist in making it resist being pulled up by other paints and inks Christofano ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:01:31 -0400 From: "Peter B. Steiner" Subject: Re: [scribes]: books on illumination Lady Anna, The best practical book I've found on illumination is -The Illuminated Alphabet- by Timothy Noad and Patricia Seligman. The authors detail 12 different styles of manuscript illumination - with good instruction for each script on both calligraphy and artwork. They make lavish use of color throughout the book. Period examples and the authors' own contemporary examples are shown for each of the styles (10 of which are within the SCA timeline.) The book is copyright 1994 by Quarto, Inc - and published by Running Press, Philadelphia, PA. (ISBN 1-56138-458-5) Cover price is $24.95. Pete Gwer Rychen von Bern ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:24:33 -0400 From: Knott Deanna Subject: RE: [scribes]: Gender Bias Hi y'all! OK, I have a theory on this. (Puhleeeze don't hurt me!!) Mundanely, let's look at who do calligraphy and why. People (both boys and girls) generally don't sit around and say,'I wanna = be a calligrapher when I grow up.' They might say,'I wanna be an = artist.' But, for the most part, I think calligraphy is a forgotten art. But, let's look at this scenario. Here is a young housewife staying = home, taking care of her kids and generally happy. Then she decides that = she wants to have a tea (or something) with her friends so she can have a = polysyllabic conversation. She thinks it might be fun to send out = invitations. She starts shopping. Nothing is quite right, BUT, she = finds this really cool paper and a Schaffer pen in the stationary aisle = of Wal-Mart. She makes invitations, her friends go wild. She has = positive encouragement/feedback. Then request for baptismal invitations = and stuff. Then she developes her hobby and, voila!! A new calligrapher = is born. Now she starts looking for a quasi-professional group to help = hone her skills and the local calligraphy club is formed (kinda like the = gardening club). I don't know what explains the difference in the SCA. Is it because deep = down inside we haven't come out of the dark ages? Men fight and women do = the arts? Actually I was just running through the list of people I know = and there are quite a few men on that list. Anyway, they are making me work! See you all on Monday!! Yours, Avelina Keyes http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/9523 (updated 6/18/98) __________________________________________________________________________= _____ From: ulfaidan@unm.edu on Fri, Jun 19, 1998 0:09 Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias To: John Stracke Cc: scribes@castle.org WEll, in Calontir it was mostly females doing scribing, at least that ever got mentioned in public. I cannot think of a male scribe laurel there off the top of my head, though I can think of a half dozen or so females. The GoA level had a few males for scribing. Here in al-Barran, there appears (to my eye anyway) to be more of a male scribal showing, and a few more interested in trying it, but still more than half female. Again, that may only be those who "do it" in public, or who talk to me, so this is NOT a scientific survey . Ms. Aidan John Stracke wrote: > > David Columbus wrote: > > > SCAdianwise, the proporation of men and women was just about equal in = both > > places. > > > > How is it in other parts of the world? > > Mmm...here in the West, among those I know of, it's about 3 or 4 to one = (more > females). No real idea why, unless it's the fact that the West is even = more > fighter-mad than other places, which sucks up guys' time. (Don't get > contentious; I know it's not mutually exclusive--one of our scribes is = a > Viscount--but everybody's got a time budget. And I know women fight, = too, but > not as many.) > > = /=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D\ > |John Francis Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| > |francis@thibault.org |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D| > |Crosston, Mists, West| Any time somebody has a conditioned | > |My LAN, my opinions. | response, they *always* think of Pavlov! | > = \=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D/ - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com with SMTP;19 Jun 1998 00:09:49 -0400 Received: from 24.4.65.87 ("port 4144"@24.4.65.87) by Ballad.GSC.GTE.Com (PMDF V5.0-8 #18654) id <01IYE92BOIAC000713@Ballad.GSC.GTE.Com> for Knott.Deanna@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:58:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) id UAA25320 for scribes-list; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from warlock.qualcomm.com (warlock.qualcomm.com = [129.46.52.129]) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA25316 for = ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moria.qualcomm.com (qualcomm.com [192.35.156.11]) by warlock.qualcomm.com (8.8.5/1.4/8.7.2/1.14) with ESMTP id UAA13717 = for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by moria.qualcomm.com id UAA20723 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 20:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carina.unm.edu(198.83.238.19) via SMTP by = moria.qualcomm.com, id smtpdAAAu7QCa_; Thu Jun 18 20:46:59 1998 Received: from unm.edu(ppp-113.unm.edu[129.24.14.113]) (2199 bytes) by carina.unm.edu via sendmail with = P:esmtp/R:bind_hosts/T:inet_zone_bind_smtp (sender: ) id for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:42:58 -0600 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 12:58:45 -0700 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org To: John Stracke Cc: scribes@castle.org Reply-to: ulfaidan@unm.edu Message-id: <2F0C4F75.BFA0658@unm.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk References: <35893222.F4E3C9E3@thibault.org> X-Authentication-warning: castle.org: majordomo set sender to owner-scribes@castle.org using -f ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 08:55:02 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal With respect, you WERE talking of preprints as I was talking of them. I've never seen what you're referring to as 'computer generated notebook paper crap' in Atlantia. What I'm saying is Royal Peers, Peers, Kingdom Orders, Court Baronies, etc., all get a hat or medallion or something and a title that goes with. If I have a choice, and I do, I will do AoA's so that all the folks who earn one get an original one. The 'cool status awards' already have so many perks it's silly, IMHO. To say they need a scroll as well is just another gewgaw.... Miri > OK. I was not talking about preprints the same way some of you are > talking. I was thinking of the nicely done, handpainted good paper > preprints not the computer generated notebook paper crap (sorry, opinion > here). Also, call me an elitist but IMO getting a big cool status award > should have some perks, like a cool scroll. NOT that AoAs are not also > a big deal, and should not also have a cool scroll. But winning The Big > Tourney gets you the Big Hat. Getting made a knight pel or laurel gets > you a cool cloak and some danglies. I think the sheer number of AoA > level awards given per reign makes it somewhat unreasonable to expect > that a cool original scroll will be able to be given at the time of the > award for each one. The sheer numbers are just not gonna work out on > that one. NOT that each and every AoA recipient isnt entitled to > commission a cool scroll, they are and should. However, a peerage (or a > county or a duchy for that matter) is something that is not going to > happen to everyone in the SCA, and therefore should be worthy of > something above and beyond, in recognition of the above and beyond done > by the person getting the peerage. > > My two pesos worth... > > Ms. Aidan (whose 3 scrolls include one peerage, one GoA and a baronial > award, all done by "family", and who would really like to be able to > commission a cool AoA scroll too....Logical? NO. Oh well) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:15:23 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: books on illumination Greetings unto all Scribes and especially Anna de Byxe For books specifically on illumination / painting technique I have no suggestions from personal experience since I'm a calligrapher, though I have seen T. Noad's book and it's quite good. For Celtic art I recommend the Celtic Design series by A. Meehan, who takes you step by step through the process of laying out knotwork and zoomorphics. There are also some general references for calligraphers and illuminators, e.g. The Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting by D. Thompson; Understanding Illuminated Manuscripts by M. Brown; The Calligrapher's Handbook edited by H. Childs; The Calligrapher's Dictionary by R. Folsom. For pictures and scroll ideas, though, the list is endless. Here's a partial list: - -- Any art book published by Braziller Press, e.g. Carolingian Painting; Celtic and Anglo-Saxon Painting; Early Spanish Manuscript Illumination; The Golden Age - Manuscript Painting at the Time of Jean, Duke of Berry; Hebrew Manuscript Painting; Late Antique and Early Christian Book Illumination; Manuscript Painting at the Court of France -- The Fourteenth Century; Persian Painting; The Golden Age of English Manuscript Painting; The Icon. - -- Books of illumination, e.g. A History of Illuminated Manuscripts by C. de Hamel; Illuminated Manuscripts by G. Bologna; The Illuminated Page, and Books of Hours, and The Illuminated Manuscript, all by J. Backhouse; Illuminations of Heaven and Earth. - -- Books of Museum art, e.g. Paintings in the Louvre; Gothic Art; Giotto to Durer. - -- Books about books, e.g. Illuminated Manuscripts by D. Gill; The Medieval Book by B. Shailor; The Smithsonian Book of Books by M. Olmert. Most of these books have commentary that discuss technique, some in depth, others not. I have all of these books and more, and actually use most of them in the course of a year. Have fun collecting! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:22:49 -0400 From: "Dorinda E Courtine-White" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- Scribal >What I'm saying is Royal Peers, Peers, Kingdom >Orders, Court Baronies, etc., all get a hat or medallion or something >and a title that goes with. If I have a choice, and I do, I will do >AoA's so that all the folks who earn one get an original one. The 'cool >status awards' already have so many perks it's silly, IMHO. To say they >need a scroll as well is just another gewgaw.... >Miri >> Also, call me an elitist but IMO getting a big cool status award >> should have some perks, like a cool scroll. NOT that AoAs are not also >> a big deal, and should not also have a cool scroll. But winning The Big >> Tourney gets you the Big Hat. Getting made a knight pel or laurel gets >> you a cool cloak and some danglies. [snip] > >> Ms. Aidan In my opinion, (not that it is worth even two cents), part of the problem is that *everyone* deserves more than we can possibly give them. We just had an event in our Shire where we had at least two dozen people work their butts off for no pay, no awards, nothing but all the thanks I could give them. (And some compliments from those who attended). I think each of them deserves something for their work, but I can't do 24 scrolls for them! The problem with scrolls, is that creating enough scrolls to provide sufficient thanks for people doing everything else overburdens another segment of the Society - the scribes. I agree that Peerages and Royal peerages are special and deserve special notice with a nice scroll. I agree that getting an AOA (and being admitted to the ranks of the nobility) is special and deserves special notice with a nice scroll. Winning your first tourney or A&S competition, running your first event, cooking your first feast, getting a GOA, becoming a Baron/ess etc. etc. are all special events to the person who is recognized. I don't know how to choose who gets top priority unless we try to let the scribes pick by deciding what scrolls they will do. Part of the problem is that we are all conditioned to believe that the scroll is the appropriate symbol of thanks and praise for all these events. Maybe someone can think of a way to get people to accept something other than scrolls so we can spread the load. I know one scribe on this list has done a couple of pieces of art for awards that were paintings and not traditional scrolls. I have seen one Japanese screen and one piece of stained glass as well (although they were sort of "scroll like" with wording etc). Do you think anyone would ever except alternatives that were more extreme? ("Here is a helmet for your Knighthood with acid etching brass decorations showing your Patent of Arms" or "here is a cloak with embroidered decoration that represent your new station".) Or would people accept the alternative and then want a scroll too? Oh well, a Friday is a bad day to solve the problems of the world. Maybe I can get to it next tuesday. :) Dorinda Courtenay (Dorinda Courtine-White) Shire of Heronter, AEthelmearc (Jamestown, NY) ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #92 ****************************