From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #88 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, June 18 1998 Volume 02 : Number 088 In this issue: [scribes]: Scribal soapbox [scribes]: [Fwd: Tres Riches Heures help] Re: [scribes]: re: scribal soapbox: AoA [scribes]: Gender Bias RE: [scribes]: Re: folium (fwd and back again) Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias Re: [scribes]: Caidan Scribes Please Read ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 16:24:24 -0700 From: "Lisa Loftin" (by way of postmaster@castle.org) Subject: [scribes]: Scribal soapbox Greetings all! Many of you responded to Baroness Anne's posts concerning some scribal issues. I forwarded them to her (she resides in my Barony and vets my cats!)and since she does not s*bscribe to this forum, she asked me to post the following. Elisabeth de Gerdeston, Flaming Gryphon (Lisa Loftin, Dayton,OH) - - --- Ventis secundis, tene cursum. Go with the flow. Unto the scribes of the Middle Kingdom does Baroness Anne of Winterskye send greetings! Wow! I'm very happy to see (via email forwarding!) all the comments generated by my "scribal soapbox" - for a while I was thinking nobody cared! A couple of final (well, maybe...) comments: Please understand that I,too, do it for the love of the art. Not for thanks, kudos, awards or anything else. For the simple aesthetic pleasure of creating something beautiful. Due to my mundane work etc. I have indeed limited my scribal workload (tho I'd like nothing better than to sit and paint every rainy day that comes along!), so I am no longer one of those beleaguered souls who has six scrolls to complete in 5 days. For those of you who remarked "you don't HAVE to do this" - I do realize that. My primary concern in the posting was concern for those of you who still DO have the incredible workload the growth of the SCA has caused. Not everyone can do "over 6000 scrolls" and keep from being burned out. If you are one of those folks who likes the last-minute rush and hassle, I have no problem with that. But it seems most of the people who replied do share at least some of my concerns. So....my question is...Now what? I also love and support the idea of scribal symposiums...so when can we do one? What else can we do? I'm a bit out of the loop - can we let the regional and kingdom signets know our requests? The Crowns also? Where do we go from here? I think we have generated some really good suggestions, and the feeling seems pretty widespread that we LIKE to do this stuff and would like to go on doing it if the conditions could be altered just a bit. So....Keep me posted. Baroness Anne of Winterskye - - ---------------------------------------------- Unto my fellow scribes of the Middle Kingdom - OK, so I wasn't done after all. I went out and cleaned stalls and did some more thinking. I have a few further comments. One...for crying out loud, no one has said you CAN'T do AoA scrolls for "practice" - but the system of using copies (and there are plenty of very good, color copies out there) for aoa's allows us more free time to be selective in what we do - so do a personalized aoa for your friend who gets a copied certificate. Do blanks for the Kingdom "coffer" of award gifts (see my first post, 'way back when...). Do Baronial level scrolls for "practice". There are backlogs at that level too! Two...someone mentioned that they would rather do scrolls than have their work "criticized" in a competition. I am VERY sorry to hear that you had a negative experience. Having been both judge and judged (and fortunate to have good judges look at my work) I will tell you it's not that hard to offer constructive, positive critique - not criticism - even to very "newbie" efforts. Anyone serving as a judge who is not capable of doing so does not deserve to be a judge, regardless of the quality of their own work. To criticize and rip apart is counterproductive. If you were on the recieving end of such, consider the source and go on. I refer again to my first post and remarks about the caliber (or lack thereof) of the social etiquette of some people in the SCA. One excellent artist in our barony was similarly ripped publicly by a signet when she unwittingly proffered a blank done with the "wrong" materials. Artistically she is capable of running rings around that particular signet, but due to that experience she does very few scrolls now, mostly just for friends. Thanks to someone's lack of tact we lost a wonderful scribe. Again, I'm sorry that any of you had this experience. Not all judges are like that, and if you run up against one who is, COMPLAIN to the organizer with your documentation (judges' comments!) IN HAND. Finally, in regard to Mistress Rayah Blackstar's comments. Both the quantity and quality of her work testify to her expertise. It sets a standard to which I aspire but can never hope to match, and I regard her with respect and awe. However, if I interpret her remarks correctly, they appear to say "the system is fine as it is, as it was 20 years ago, so live with it." To me this seems like an old doctor saying to an intern "I had to work 36 hr shifts and if it was good enough for me, it's good enough for you, and to hell with the quality of your medicine." I think I must be misinterpreting, for it seems to me that anyone approaching her craft with the dedication exhibited by Mistress Rayah ought to welcome changes that, by freeing up other scribes' time, allow them to study and improve their skills when NOT under the duress of completing scrolls by a deadline. Surely last-minute scroll production is for the most part counterproductive in that regard. Finally...if we can get some proposals together that MOST people agree are worth presenting, I'd be happy to summarize them and present them to..who? The Curia? I don't mind - I can make the time, and it's not as if I have a lot to lose if I provoke the wrath of someone - threaten me with what, never becoming a Laurel? That doesn't matter to me. I'd like to promote the craft by bettering conditions for the scribes. I would also be willing to correspond by private email on this subject. Respectfully Baroness Anne of Winterskye (Ladyanne57@aol.com) Get your FREE, private e-mail account at http://www.mailcity.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 13:08:43 -0700 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: [scribes]: [Fwd: Tres Riches Heures help] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------96DA32A5EF973D481D5709D5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I pulled this off the rialto ... perhaps someone would care to reply ?? Thanks... Ms. Aidan Notatlilieswhine.... - --------------96DA32A5EF973D481D5709D5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Path: lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mort1mer@aol.com (Mort1mer) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Tres Riches Heures help Message-ID: <1998061619005500.PAA16429@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Jun 1998 19:00:55 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Xref: lynx.unm.edu rec.org.sca:266234 I went to amazon.com today trying to find a copy of the Tres Riches Heures . . . since my local bookstore doesn't have any. I did a search on the title and came up with about 6 different editions that are in print. I can't afford the $70 one, but the others are in my price range. However, not having seen any of these, I don't know which I'd like best. I'm interested in just the illustrations, so a complete analysis of everything in them is not required. I'd like to get decent-sized pictures, with maybe close-ups of small bits, but that's not mandatory. What versions of this book do other SCAdians have? How does one author/editor compare to another? Thanks! - --------------96DA32A5EF973D481D5709D5-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:59:13 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: re: scribal soapbox: AoA Barbara Webb wrote: > > Just another point inspied by some of the replies: > > If we are going to limit the number of scrolls by not giving one for every > award (or giving pre-prints or promissories or very simple scrolls) then I > would vote that the one award that _does_ get a fancy original scroll _is_ > the AoA. Yes I know is the most common and most 'basic' award but bear > with me for a moment: > Caitlin de Courcy Hi, I agree with this sentiment and suggest that you look at the Lochac solution for getting a scroll worth looking at (and worth stealing) with minimal amount of effort. There are over 15 designs now, so there is a wide range of designs and when the creativity of the artists is added, no two will look alike, unless it is done deliberately. The calligraphy takes less than an hour. The scrolls are on heavy paper 200gsm and higher and there is plenty of room for inovation in the painting so as little as two hours or as much as twenty depending on the style and the inclination of the artist. Doing the scroll after the award is given in court and after the recipient has registered a name and device removes most of the time pressures. Since implementing this in Lochac the backlog on AoAs has been down to zero available projects once and it is now up again slightly. We still have a backlog on peerage scrolls. as ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia and still without my Pelican scroll, but a friend did ask to do it and being things like being kingdom seneschal have got in the way. When there is time, the scroll will get done and I am more than happy to wait. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:59:30 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: [scribes]: Gender Bias The local calligraphy society is running an exhibition at a local gallery. The exhibition has 40+ items, of which only 7 are from males and 4 of those are mine. This bias is also noted in the annual competition which gets about a fifteen entries and mine was the only one from a male. Is this a mundane phenomena as the scribes list is not noticeably unbalanced. as ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 01:28:56 -0500 (CDT) From: daffy/chiara Subject: RE: [scribes]: Re: folium (fwd and back again) Evain wrote: =BBIn a previous post, Lady Ellen of the Scholars asked for information o= n=20 =BBturnsole and/or folium ICW the Lindisfarne Gospels. I took the liberty= of=20 =BBforwarding it to the Historical Herb list.=20 I looked up folium and turnsole in The Materials and Techniques of=20 Medieval Painting by Daniel V. Thompson. He had quite a bit to say on the subject, but it boiled down to his conclusion that "...medieval=20 turnsole, from which the colours called folium were made, was indeed the plant now called Crozophora tinctoria." Does this help? Chiara da Ravenna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 02:12:56 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gender Bias Thorfinn wrote: << The exhibition has 40+ items, of which only 7 are from males and 4 of those are mine. ... ... Is this a mundane phenomena? as the scribes list is not noticeably unbalanced.>> Our local Society for Calligraphy is having a juried exhibit in July -- I suspect that the submissions will be pretty evenly balanced by sex, though I also suspect that the entries will be largely biased towards the modern. My submissions, of course, will generally be on the early side of the spectrum. We'll see if they accept any of mine (2 early style, one ultra-modern). The exhibit won't be open for public view till the end of the month , after the Discoveries convention in San Diego. I'll report back on the gender distribution, once the show is mounted. Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid Melinda Sherbring, Los Angeles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:56:09 -0700 From: ken stoner Subject: Re: [scribes]: Caidan Scribes Please Read Yes, I will volunteer to handle the bringing the scribes list diegest. It will also be published on the www.scibes.org web site. I have one problem though... I am not *KNOWN* for my frequent travels to the north. Subsequently, thinking that this is likey not to change unless I win crown (snoball in hell), it might be better if someone else volunteered to do this. *Wine Mode On* Second, about the event in Sept... I notice that many (I believe all at this point) of the scribal events are scheduled for those areas in central and somewhat northern Caid. Would it be possible to hold the september event AT september war here in Calafia? Mind you: I AM NOT TRYING TO STIR UP THAT OLD (and tired) N vs. S argument... My concern is for the 8 or so new people that I am frantically trying to keep engaged down here. It would be good to let them see the other scribes in the Kingdom at a Calafian Event. Calafia doesn't have that many kingdom events in the next couple of months (well into 1999) except for Calafian Anniversary/Investiture. *Wine Mode Off* Many of you mentioned that you are having problems with the Caid-Scribes list. I spoke with CT tonight, and he told me that the list seems to be operating properly at his end of things. If you know of a scribe in Caid who would like to subscribe to this list, and who is having trouble, have them contact me or CT for help. Here are our e-mail addresses: kstoner@home.com nomad@castle.org While we are on the topic of the Caid-Scribes list: At this time I would like to request that we NOT encourage people from out of kingdom to join this list. After all, the list should theoretically not really be interesting to people out of Caid, as it is intended for administration of the College of Scribe of Caid only. Any Juicy stuff should probably be taken to Sca-Scribes anyways. Right? Lastly: My conduct on THIS list. Hey, its my job to be a jerk on SCA-SCRIBES. It NOT my job on this list, as it isnt really needed. But sometimes I have a BAD day. If you think I am being overly JERKY, Either Here or at SCA-SCRIBES... Please feel free to throw a pie at me HERE. I really do appreciate the constructive criticism and promise not to take this kind of criticism personally. :-) Oh my god am I tired. Cystennin, Sleeping now, In Calafia, *SNOR>>>>>> EowynA@aol.com wrote: > > Hi! > > I apologize to those not in Caid for the excessive use of bandwidth.  > > I just posted the minutes of the meeting we held at Queen's Champion to the > caid-scribes mailing list. I know that there have been some difficulties > subscribing to it, or even knowing that anything is working, since that list > had been so inactive lately. > > This is the last time I will post to scribes about caid-scribes stuff, but I > didn't want any Caidan scribes to feel left out. if you haven't subscribed to > caid-scribes yet, things are likely to start more conversations now. > > I return you to your regularly scheduled Scribes mailing list, now in > progress, > > Eowyn Amberdrake - -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Kenneth Allen Stoner Cystennin Ap Gereint | |San Diego, CA. Calafia, Caid. | |Kstoner@Elgar.com Kstoner@home.com | |http://24.0.173.254/KenStoner.htm http://24.0.173.254/Cystenin.html | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |SCA Scribes List Coordinator. http://24.0.173.254/Scribes.htm | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #88 ****************************