From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #80 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, June 15 1998 Volume 02 : Number 080 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: [Mid] [Fwd: Scribal soapbox [scribes]: scribe strike [scribes]: Re: scribe strike (LONG and opinionated!) [scribes]: folium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:14:14 -0500 From: Ceinwen Subject: Re: [scribes]: [Mid] [Fwd: Scribal soapbox Greetings Scribal Artists. I'm sorry, I didn't catch the first of this thread, but #3 is what our baronial S/I guild does. Our barony has a budget of moneys available to spend on supplies. We have a set of baronial paints, brushes, couple of pens, various nib sizes, ink, paper, and ready to paint scrolls. I ALWAYS invite new people to our monthly meetings to try their hand at illumination. This past weekend our Nautilus Pursuivant had a Heraldic Academy. I brought all our supplies along with my own and we set up a table for anyone who wanted to paint scrolls for the kingdom. In the course of the day, we had to set up a second table for more people interested in painting. We had a great time, made new friends and got a ton of scrolls completed in the process. In service, Ceinwen ferch Rhuol Elfsea, Ansteorra Heather Swann wrote: > > Whereas I see some good points of courtesy made, I would make some > further points: > 1) If scribes are paid, this will lead to a higher level of work > expected. This will squeeze out the beginning scribes whose work may > not be regarded as worth the price. They will not get as much practice, > and may be discouraged. True, you don't expect armourers to give of > their art so freely, but when money is paid for it, you expect a certain > level of craftsmanship. > 2)This will also create another problem- who will pay for the scrolls? > The Kingdom? Funds will dry up and fewer awards will be given because > the Kingdom will not be able to afford it. The recipient? Then scrolls > will only be for the wealthy- how many of us as poor college students > could have afforded an AoA scroll? > 3)Certainly it would be spiffing keen if we got more thanks for our > work, but to a certain extent, that's just how it is. What I would > suggest instead is this: Local groups could buy a good basic kit for > their local scriptoria- paints, pens, brushes, paper,etc. No leaf or > fancy stuff, but enough for scribes to turn out good basic scrolls. If > you want more fancy stuff you empty your personal pockets. The local > groups would be able to teach more scribes, get more local scrolls done, > and the Kingdom would benefit by having more scribes able to do scrolls. > > I can't honestly see anything being accomplished by a strike...we're a > volunteer organization- if you don't want to do scrolls, then don't do > them. If you feel something should be changed, then put a new plan into > action. > > Miri > > Sally Burnell wrote: > (snip) > > >Greetings from Alexis! > > > > > >The following is forwarded by request of the writer - and is intended to > > >promote discussion and thought amoungst the readers... > > > > > >Her Excellency makes some good points... > (snip) > > > >If anyone wants to forward this to the MiddleBridge or anywhere else > > >appropriate, have at it. Many thanks for listening. > > >Baroness Anne of Winterskye (* AoA, OPF (x2), OW, CDH, Court Baroness ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:00:25 -0500 From: Cindy Baker Subject: [scribes]: scribe strike I sympathise with Baroness Anne of Winterskye on her unpleasant scribal experiences. I also have done many scrolls without ever hearing from the recipient afterward. I have also worked on scrolls on very short notice and under difficult circumstances (5 scrolls the day of the event, staying up all night, etc.) I disagree with the Baroness that the system needs changed. Neither the kingdom, nor their Majesties, demand or expect scribes to work under extreme conditions. The signet can 'request' last minute scrolls, but it is up to each individual scribe to decide whether to accept a given assignment or not. If expectations are too high in this kingdom, it is because WE expect more from OURSELVES as scribes and set unrealistic goals. I have talked to scribes from many different kingdoms, their complaints are the same whatever system their kingdom uses. If you cannot complete a scroll to your satisfaction in the given time, say so. Do a promissory scroll instead and include information on the back for the recipient to contact you after court for a 'real' scroll. Or lay out the basics and let their majesties hand out an incomplete scroll, again with contact information included so the recipient can have the scroll completed when you have time. Or refuse the assignment. The signet can request the scroll from another scribe who may have the time. Make some blank scrolls and keep a couple on hand to use when you have a last-minute request. It is OK to make a simple scroll when there is less time available. It is OK to say no. Nobody is going to blame you for taking care of yourself, or your life outside the SCA. The fact remains that awards are going to be given on short notice. If someone does particularly well in a battle, it is appropriate for their Majesties to reward that person that day. If someone spends all day in the kitchen at their first event, and then stays until 1:00 am to help clean, it is not fair to expect the recipient or their Majesties to wait for an award simply because a scroll is not ready. I would like to see every award recipient get a beautiful, original scroll. I do not have a problem with making a scroll to replace a promissory after the award has been given. I also do not have a problem with making a 'second' scroll to replace a scroll the recipient is not satisfied with, however, I would also suggest the recipient should compensate the scribe for a second scroll (either barter, service, cash for materials, whatever). I do like the idea of requesting similar service and 'gifts' from other artisans of the kingdom. This would not only even the balance, but give them an opportunity to show off their work and receive the recognition their work is due. I have noticed that some of the royalty recently has begun giving out this kind of token along with a scroll when awards are given. I have seen award medallions, circlets, jewelry, hand-cast coins, etc. I don't think this kind of 'gift' will replace award scrolls though. It is a very long-standing tradition and award recipients will expect a scroll even if they receive some other gift from their Majesties. One final note -- I believe we need to continually educate our populace. Let them know how much effort goes into making a scroll. Set a good example by PUBLICLY thanking a scribe who made a scroll for you, or publicly compliment a scribe whose work you admire. Set up a scribes table at your next event and work on projects where everyone can see what you do. Make sure to include contact information with the scrolls you make. I have received several award scrolls that were not even signed. Encourage newcomers to try scribal work, even if they only help 'color-in' a small area that you have already outlined. Teach them to sign their names with a calligraphy pen or quill. In light of my own advice -- THANK YOU!!! I love each and every scroll I have ever received! Thank you for all the advice you have given and time you have spent talking to me both in this forum and in person at events. Thanks to each and every one of you for being such wonderful examples of service and excellent workmanship. I hope to live up to some of those unrealistic expectations myself someday! Lady Ellen of the Scholars cebaker@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Della Hutchison Subject: [scribes]: Re: scribe strike (LONG and opinionated!) As a Kingdom Signet Officer (AEthelmearc), I do my best to make sure the Royalty know how much effort goes into the production of scrolls. (I can't say I am always successful, but I do try.) The scrolls given out here are some of the best in the Known World, due, in large part, to the respect that the Royalty have for the work we do. They try to give us sufficient lead time, and the scribes come through by producing beautiful original works of art. They can tell the difference between the scrolls done in haste and those done with sufficient lead time. (Remember: It makes Them look good when beautiful pieces of art get handed out in court! Courts without scrolls are exceedingly dull!) Of course, the Royalty SHOULD be able to give spontaneous awards when they are warranted; but this should be the exception, not the rule. At times when I have not been able to give my scribes much lead time, I ALWAYS tell them that "no" is an acceptable answer. In fact, I have sometimes encouraged them to say no. They very rarely did, though. I think that if we allow ourselves to be taken advantage of, we will be. It's as simple as that. When we do scrolls with too little time, what exactly are we practicing? Often, we do the "old standby" style because we know we can get it done on time. It doesn't give us much time to experiment with or practice something new. We often end up being dissatisfied with our work. We practice bad habits, not good ones. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't like working this way. I want to feel like I'm getting better. I want to enjoy what I'm doing. And I want the same thing for my scribes! It is also important to educate the populace about how long it takes to create scrolls. When was the last time someone other than the King and Queen published a letter in your Kingdom newsletter reminding people to send in letters of recommendation EARLY? If they heard it from the folks who create the scrolls, they might pay more attention. When was the last time your local group published such an article? My previous King and Queen got phone calls from autocrats THURSDAY NIGHT BEFORE the event recommending over half a dozen people for awards. This is not acceptable! Recommendations should be made months or weeks in advance of an event, NOT days! Situations like this leave the Royalty in an awkward position: Should they ignore deserving people because the timing stinks? That's not right. Should scribes kill themselves to get scrolls done? That's not right, either. The only other choice is to give the award without a scroll. I disagree with giving promissories for awards. Because generally what happens is scribes feel so guilty about not getting the "real" scroll done, they put far too much work into the "promissory." (You see, even our "promissories" are original.) That means the scribe does twice the work for one scroll. Giving out a partically-completed scroll is better, but I find that these often get "mislaid" on my "to-do" pile, and it takes me forever to get them finished. If scribes in the Middle Kingdom are unhappy with the system and think it needs changing, then they should talk to their Signet Officer, who should talk to the Royalty. If individual scribes are tired of working under impossible deadlines but still want to do scrolls, they could work on backlog scrolls. If enough people said "No, I can't work that way anymore," I think the system would HAVE to change. And that's the way I see it! Yours, Mistress Alicia Langland AEthelmearc Sylvan Signet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:05:11 -0500 From: Cindy Baker Subject: [scribes]: folium The discussion of colors from the Lindisfarne gospel brought to mind another question: Does anyone out there know where to find turnsole or folium (Crozophora tinctora)? This was a plant which grew in southern France (I think) and the juice from the seeds was used as a blue/purple and sometimes pinkish or red color. Is this plant still in existence or has it become extinct? I am curious as to the exact color obtained from the seeds. I have only seen reproductions of manuscripts using this color and until I am able to afford a trip to Europe, can only guess at the actual shades produced. I would be very interested in experimenting with this plant as a coloring agent, if I could find a supply. Ellen of the Scholars cebaker@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #80 ****************************