From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #69 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, June 10 1998 Volume 02 : Number 069 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: White Gold Leaf Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf [scribes]: Re: silver leaf [scribes]: Silver Leaf & Palladium [scribes]: more mail problems on scribes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:03:47 -0700 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: White Gold Leaf >>YES! I also use white gold for my Silver leaf. It has ALL the wonderfull characteristics of gold leaf like: Precision, Ability to burnish up nice, etc. As for WHERE to get white gold... I dont know. I got my book from Thomas.<< I think Easy Leaf carries white gold leaf - they have several colors of leaf if I recall correctly. I confess it never occurred to me to try it instead of silver leaf. I think they may also have the Palladium leaf. I'm intrigued by the person who mentioned burnishing real silver leaf as I've never been able to get it to work. My jeweller brother-in-law says that this is because pure silver is much harder than pure gold and therefore it won't burnish since it doesn't "mash" together like soft gold. Could you post more details on how you got it burnished? I'd love to know if there's a technique out there I've missed. I confess I don't think I've ever seen burnished silver leaf in any manuscripts although with the usual tarnishing it's hard to tell if it was burnished or not. Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:21:48 -0500 From: gevehard@juno.com (Garret C Bitker) Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf Greetings, Palladium leaf as listed in the recent Paper & Ink catalog (no plug intended) lists for the same price as loose and patent leaf, $40 per book of 25 sheets. Gevehard _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:40:25 EDT From: MRomero106@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: silver leaf Ok so I already used the silver leaf that I had for the AoA scroll and it looks good. Thankfully I read this group and now know that I will be putting the light varnish on to reduce if not nullfy the oxidation. But I still think that having seen quite a few Arabic scrolls and Miniatures (two things that I will be working towards as a specialty in the future) using it along with gold I would still use it. I would wonder however, if in some cases the change in color was meant to happen since varnish and laquers were known in period and they meant for it to change for some reason that may be as simple as asthetics that we no longer appreciate? Just a wondering of mine...(still being a novice scribe am Iallowed to make these sorts of reasonings? :-)) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Naquiib Zaid al-fallah Hajji (Merced Romero,Jr.) Sable Swan Herald Barony of Fett Burg Principality of Cynagua Kingdom of the west (whew!) Stockton,Ca ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:03:35 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: [scribes]: Silver Leaf & Palladium Hi there. Chiarra asked about the price of Palladium leaf, so I dug up the catalog I got from http://www.easyleaf.com to see if it was available. First note that Palladium is *not* the same as Platinum. The latter is a very hard metal when alloyed with other metals while the former is fairly ductile/malleable. They *are* often found natively together in raw ore (along with iridium and rhodium) and are easily mixed up but they are not the same. My dictionary says that it's "permanent in air" by which I assume that they mean it doesn't tarnish. Back to the catalog. Easyleaf carries leaf products from about 11 European manufacturers, and of them two make Palladium. It costs about the same as the 24K Deep Gold or the 23.75K Rosenoble leafs (e.g. $36 for a book of 25 standard sized leafs). By comparison the Pure Silver leaf is $12 a book. In addition they also carry 12K-13K white gold, 16K Champagne gold, and Pure Silver leaf. In additioon they have leaf from one Italian firm (in silver, 22K and 23K gold) in 21 meter length rolls with widths varying from 6mm to 80mm! Talk about a fun way to do a line of gold! And the 6mm roll of 23K is only $24 (though the 80mm roll is $297...). Finally, they have shell gold, but if you want this I'd recommend going to John Neal Booksellers, as theirs is about 1/2 the price per gram (and that's exactly how much you get...) at $22 a tablet from http://www.johnnealbooks.com . This has sent me off to investigate the two P metals. Here goes... Platinum is named after "platina", Spanish for "small silver", and was discovered in the 16th C by someone named Scaliger. It's used in small amounts alloyed to yellow gold to make white gold. Palladium was discovered by someone named Wollaston in 1803. According to my book (Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia, 1938), Palladium is the preferred alloy to make white gold as it provides a superior whitening power to platinum. Apparently any ore that contains Platinum also contains small amounts of Palladium (about 2%), osmium, ruthenium, iridium and traces of others, and the combinations are generically called "platinum ores", referring to the whiteness of the metal content. Wow, I learned something new. So what? Well, now we know that in theory Platinum leaf could be used in period, and as it would have undoubtedly had small amounts of Palladium in it, we could also justify using that... I know, it's a stretch. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 22:15:40 -0700 From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: more mail problems on scribes Just when I get the network working again... There was a change of network configurations where I work which caused me to have to reconfigure how I connect there from home. Unfortunately, this change resulted in breaking incoming mail to castle.org. The networking people are working on the problem, and hope to have it fixed by wednesday night. Any mail that is sent to scribes will be queued on a host at work, and will be delivered as soon as possible. I appologize for the delay, CT/nomad - ------------ - Lee "nomad" Damon - \ play: nomad@castle.org or castle!nomad \ work: nomad@qualcomm.com \ http://people.qualcomm.com/nomad/ /\ Seneschal, Castle PAUS. / \ "Celebrate Diversity" / \ ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #69 ****************************