From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #68 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, June 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 068 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf and stuff Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? [scribes]: Report on England Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Re: [scribes]: black vs.blue [scribes]: Europe (sorta long) Re: [scribes]: black vs.blue Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? [scribes]: White Gold Leaf [scribes]: WWW Site news. [scribes]: Silver Leaf RE: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:02:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Monica Cellio Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? > What is the best (and hopefully easiest) way to make straight ink lines? I use a cork-backed ruler, which doesn't pose the blotting problems of regular rulers. (The metal edge is lifted of the paper, and the cork actually doesn't come all the way to the edge of the ruler, so you've got air space.) Ellisif ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:16:51 -0400 (EDT) From: stacey jill wahrman Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Lady Mylisant wrote: > Is silver leaf a period material for illumination or would they have > just used silver ink? I'm using an imitation silver leaf on the scroll > I'm currently working on (to avoid future tarnishing) and wondered if it > would be documentable. > From what I have read/heard on museum tours, silver leaf was used alomst as widely as gold, but tarnished and looks black today so we don't associate it with illumination since we're not used to seeing it. I've seen it (or what used to be silver) on everything from books of hours to a manuscript of Arabic poetry (that must have been spectacular, all of the waves in an ocean scene were done in silver leaf that looks striking in black, but must have been absolutely radiant in silver, giving the piece a very different mood from the currently somber color combo). Like dyed vellum, silver leaf is one of those things you don't hear about much because it didn't survive well. Looks really cool though, with a much softer feel to the finished piece than bright gold, I think. My two pence, and a *vivat!* to Master JimBear! Arianwen ferch Maelgwn Ponte Alto, Atlantia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:31:47 -0500 (CDT) From: ches Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? I work with silver in a totally different art. But the end result is a very fine silver dust. i want to make some water designs that this would be just wonderful! can anyone tell me how to mix the extra-fine silver dust with ?? to get a flow going? ches On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, stacey jill wahrman wrote: - ---snip--- > manuscript of Arabic poetry (that must have been spectacular, all of the > waves in an ocean scene were done in silver leaf that looks striking in > black, but must have been absolutely radiant in silver, giving the piece a > very different mood from the currently somber color combo). Like dyed > vellum, silver leaf is one of those things you don't hear about much > because it didn't survive well. Looks really cool though, with a much > softer feel to the finished piece than bright gold, I think. > > My two pence, and a *vivat!* to Master JimBear! > > Arianwen ferch Maelgwn > Ponte Alto, Atlantia > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:43:06 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? In a message dated 98-06-09 02:35:33 EDT, sknouse@msuvx2.memphis.edu writes: << Is silver leaf a period material for illumination or would they have just used silver ink? I'm using an imitation silver leaf on the scroll I'm currently working on (to avoid future tarnishing) and wondered if it would be documentable. >> Off hand, I can't recall seeing it in book pages but I have seen it used in portraits of the late Elizabethan period. I know that it wasn't "shell silver" either because the area that was leafed was slightly raised and at one time it appeared to have been burnished........when I saw the piece the silver had mostly oxidized.....If you woullike to do a little research, you might try looking at the armour in the Italian Renn book paintings in the "Monument style"-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:43:10 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? In a message dated 98-06-09 08:09:48 EDT, Anna.Troy@bibks.uu.se writes: << I've also tried a ruling pen(?) the thing that looks like a birds beak with a screw in between, but it blotted too much. Anna de Byxe >> I use either a Rotring rapidograph or a ruling pen...two possibly stupid questions: 1) Are you using a lettering ruler(one with a thin layer of cork underneath)? 2) Do you have your work surface tilted to about 60 degrees?-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:30:14 -0500 From: "Dorinda E Courtine-White" Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Please respond to cellio@pobox.com To: scribes@castle.org cc: (bcc: Dorinda E Courtine-White/Auto/Cummins) Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? >> What is the best (and hopefully easiest) way to make straight ink lines? >I use a cork-backed ruler, which doesn't pose the blotting problems of >regular rulers. (The metal edge is lifted of the paper, and the cork >actually doesn't come all the way to the edge of the ruler, so you've >got air space.) >Ellisif I also love the plastic drafting straight edges that hae a "lip" along the edge so that you don't have ink seep under the edge. If you don't have these or a cork backed ruler you can glue pennies to the bottom of the ruler you have. That will lift it up. And I hate to even mention it, but a tech pen gives a nice even straight lines. :) Dorinda Courtenay (Dorinda Courtine-White) Shire of Heronter, AEthelmearc (Jamestown, NY) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:05:48 -0400 From: Gene Bonar Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf and stuff Greetings,=20 Something else interesting about silver leaf. As you know we have a rule against having colors on colors and metal on metal in heraldry. Well several examples of various colors on black have been found, and these were going to be used for proof that color on color was used in period. After some checking it turned out that the black was actually silver leaf that had tarnished. Go figure. E=F3gan mac Ailpein, archer and baronial herald Elvegast, Windmasters' Hill, Atlantia mka Gene Bonar 919.772.1112 gbonar@auspex.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:07:24 -0700 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? >>Is silver leaf a period material for illumination or would they have just used silver ink? I'm using an imitation silver leaf on the scroll I'm currently working on (to avoid future tarnishing) and wondered if it would be documentable.<< Silver leaf is definitely period and was used a lot, but it's tarnished over the years and now looks black. I've worked with both the real stuff and the imitation leaf and they look almost identical to each other (unlike some of the fake gold leaf that doesn't look at all like the real stuff). The advantage of working with the imitation silver leaf is that it won't tarnish, at least it hasn't on any of the scrolls I've done over the years and many of those were exposed to some nasty salty sea air for long periods of time. Real silver leaf will start to tarnish almost before you finish the scroll, but if you really want to use it I'd suggest putting a very thin coat of clear varnish over it when you're finished leafing. I'm kind of surprised they didn't think of this in period since they used varnish on the panel paintings and many of the techniques for that art were used in illumination as well. My one scroll regret is that I used real silver leaf on Aliskye's Pelican scroll and didn't varnish it so now it's quite black. I'm tempted to releaf it since I currently have it back from her to frame but i'm afraid I may screw it up. Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:12:44 -0700 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? >>What is the best (and hopefully easiest) way to make straight ink lines? Use a cork backed ruler and a pen (either a crow quill or a technical pen - I prefer the latter myself but a lot of people poo-poo technical pens). The cork gives you air space and keeps the ink from blotting *most* of the time but be careful. Always *lift* the ruler up after each line, don't slide it, and then wipe the straight edge with a rag or paper towel to remove the ink left by the edge of the pen before moving onto the next straight line. Believe me - always wipe it off or else you'll eventually wind up accidentally leaving a black smear from the edge on the paper. If you don't have a cork backed ruler you can tape some dimes or pennies to the underside of your regular ruler as a temporary lifter (I've done this with my right triangle since I can't find one with a cork backing on it). Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:19:38 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? In a message dated 98-06-09 11:35:13 EDT, ches@io.com writes: << I work with silver in a totally different art. But the end result is a very fine silver dust. i want to make some water designs that this would be just wonderful! can anyone tell me how to mix the extra-fine silver dust with ?? to get a flow going? ches >> You could probably make shell silver (isn't he a writer?) by grinding your silver dust with salt (sea salt works the best ) in a shallow bowl. Once it is ground, use water to desolve the salt and transfer the remaining silver to a shallow vessel allow the water to evaporate and then add gum arabic to make a silver paste then let dry in the shallow bowl and you should end up with a cake of silver that you can reconstitute with water when needed. I would suggest that once the cake is dried put it in an airtight container to reduce the oxidization process-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:45:22 +0000 From: "Laurie Cavanaugh" Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? > And I hate to even mention it, but a tech pen gives a nice even straight > lines. :) > > > Dorinda Courtenay The smiley faces have been clipped off my original rant-N-rave, so I want to reiterate the intended humor that went along with my original statement about tech pens. My strange brand of humorous fake snobbiness doesn't translate well over email. I do think a brush looks better, but I'm certainly not going to look down on anyone using a tech pen. (After a weekend *painting* lettering onto two scrolls where no other tool would work, I would have happily laser-printed the darn things! :-)) I'll admit that getting long thin lines straight, especially across open white spaces, is difficult with a brush, and the brush doesn't work too well with a ruler. If the paint won't go through a crow quill that day, I lightly pencil the line in and do segments of it while holding my breath. Outlining straight bar-n-vine stuff is easier, because I probably didn't get it perfectly straight in the first place. I just found out I'm able to come to Pennsic! I look forward to meeting lots of you. Morgan Athenry the not-as-snobbish-as-she-looks :-) Dreiburgen, Caid Laurie Cavanaugh Young Minds, Inc cavanaug@ymi.com Splendor is worth the effort. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:43:18 -0400 From: "June Lathrop" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? I use white-gold leaf...although it has a very slight yellow tint to it, when put next to regular gold leaf, it is light enough to pass for silver. I've used this for Silver Crescents in the East (a silver crescent atop a gold crown) and it looks just fine. No worry about tarnishing either. Lady Juliana Stafford, Rusted Woodlands, East mka June Lathrop, West Milford, NJ - -----Original Message----- From: stacey jill wahrman To: Lady Mylisant Cc: Scribes Date: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? >On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Lady Mylisant wrote: > >> Is silver leaf a period material for illumination or would they have >> just used silver ink? I'm using an imitation silver leaf on the scroll >> I'm currently working on (to avoid future tarnishing) and wondered if it >> would be documentable. >> > >From what I have read/heard on museum tours, silver leaf was used alomst >as widely as gold, but tarnished and looks black today so we don't >associate it with illumination since we're not used to seeing it. I've >seen it (or what used to be silver) on everything from books of hours to a >manuscript of Arabic poetry (that must have been spectacular, all of the >waves in an ocean scene were done in silver leaf that looks striking in >black, but must have been absolutely radiant in silver, giving the piece a >very different mood from the currently somber color combo). Like dyed >vellum, silver leaf is one of those things you don't hear about much >because it didn't survive well. Looks really cool though, with a much >softer feel to the finished piece than bright gold, I think. > >My two pence, and a *vivat!* to Master JimBear! > >Arianwen ferch Maelgwn >Ponte Alto, Atlantia > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:10:27 -0800 From: Trish Waldon Subject: [scribes]: Report on England >Tetchubah wrote" >"Okay everyone, I'm finally back from my trip to England and here's what I >found while wandering around England. Pretty much nothing. Admittedly I >didn't have a whole bunch of time to look around for the obscure stuff but >I did get to the new British Library and I was disappointed with regards to >the number of manuscripts they have on display..." Hi, Tetchubah and everybody, This is Rowan Oldway. Techubah, I was interested and somewhat relieved to read your comments about your disappointment. I got back from Ireland a couple of weeks ago and was also somewhat disappointed with what I was able to see in the way of illuminated manuscripts and wondered if it was just me or bad luck. I was fortunate enough to be able to see the Book of Kells at Trinity College (at a special high price, of course). It was an excellent exhibit, but only two of the four re-bound volumes of the BoK were on display, so in essence you could only view four pages instead of a possible eight. The Book of Durrow was there, and lovely, as well as a few other manuscripts of varying quality. But there were few people in the exhibit, so one could stand and gawk to one's hearts content. But I don't remember seeing any C&I in the National Museum at all (tho there was lots and lots of gold and jewelry). My conclusion: if you are going to England/Ireland etc. and want to see lots of C&I, be sure to make those special arrangements ahead of time to see what you want to see - it's not just out there and easily available. Rowan Oldway of Oakhaven P.S. Ireland is certainly a beautiful country. Highly recommended if you like scenery and lots of green in your palette! P.P.S. My congratulations to you, as well, Master JimBear! I hope to meet you and all your Caidan colleges someday at an interkingdom event. **************************************************************** Trish Waldon voice: (408) 459-3857 Social Sciences Development fax: (408) 459-5900 310 Social Sciences I email: trishw@cats.ucsc.edu University of California Santa Cruz, CA 95064 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:54:54 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? >Is silver leaf a period material for illumination or would they have >just used silver ink? I'm using an imitation silver leaf on the scroll >I'm currently working on (to avoid future tarnishing) and wondered if it >would be documentable. Yes, silver gets used a fair bit as leaf from very early on. It's a shame too. There are so many great historical and artistic MSS which have these really ugly black masses all over them which used to be bright white metal gleaming with the same radiance as gold. Oh well. Take a look through a book of collected examples and look for suspicious black panels. You should be able to identify them by their out of context appearance. Not all of it has tarnished, and there are some examples out there which still show white metal. You'll have to see that to appreciate what the rest once was. I think I recall that today's white metal leaf is aluminum. As a metal, aluminum will eventually tarnish to dull grey if not laquered over. Composition leaf is bronze and fails eventually unless you do the same thing. When I was kinda new to this stuff I did some pages in the Middle Kingdom Great Book in both the bronze and aluminum leaf. The aluminum still looks good and the bronze is a sad lesson. That was about 12 years ago. Metal leaf of other types was also used in period. I believe tin is the main alternate, but check with someone else on the specifics. They used to imitate golden hue on it by overpainting the tin wiht yellow STAINED oil paint. Other oil paint techniques included painting opaquely onto yellow or white metal to create designs and painting an opaque field of color for sgraffito use. Sgraffito is the term for a technique where you paint a color over another previously dried color, but while the top layer is still wet enough to be pliable (tacky stage), you scratch or etch off linework to reveal the under layer. use a wooden or other blunt point. Ranthulfr Asparlundr Randy Asplund-Faith Science Ficion & Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:54:56 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? >What is the best (and hopefully easiest) way to make straight ink lines? >The best I made so far has been with a thin brush and ruler, I've also >tried a ruling pen(?) the thing that looks like a birds beak with a screw >in between, but it blotted too much. > >Anna de Byxe When you say it "blotted too much" what do you mean exactly. Did it creep under the ruler? After some trouble with that in the past I realized that the rulers are low profile, but clear plastic drafting triangles are thicker and that allows the pen to glide along the upper edge of the triangle without letting the bottom of the triangle and the tip of the bow pen contact each other and make a mess. The mess is from capillary action when the tip of the pen and the straight edge touch. Run the bow pen tilted slightly over the triangle and it should not be a problem. Of course, back in school we used to tape pennies under our rulers, and I once had a cork-backed ruler. Both of these raise the ruler up over the tip of the pen-point, but the drawbacks are that cork gets really dirty and hard to clean and the tape holding the coins leaves sticky gunk under the ruler which can eventually transfer to the page. These drawbacks though are minor and one fix is about as good as another. BTW, although I do use the bow pen for long lines, especially in ruling a page with ink, I find it mechanically very modern in appearance when I use it in painting. Not nearly as distracting from medieval as a cartridge pen along a ruler, but enough to make a difference. So instead, I usually do all straight lines by hand pulling with a brush over a predrawn pencil line which was made along a straight edge. Imagine the level of perfection achievable with a quill pen along the side of a wooden straight edge and you have it. Ranthulfr Randy Asplund-Faith Science Ficion & Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:25:14 -0500 (EST) From: john j cash Subject: Re: [scribes]: black vs.blue Dear folks, I haven't seen the page in question here. However, my impression from my long study of illuminated capitals is, the color is (dark) blue. It is quite correct to note the use of black penwork in period; but note that the black penwork is done with gold letters. Red penwork was done with blue letters, and blue (sometimes purple) penwork done with red letters, as a rule. Green letters appear early on, and are rare later, and I believe have red penwork when they have it at all. -- johannes v.n. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:44:40 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: [scribes]: Europe (sorta long) I have done the Europe thing a couple of times in recent years and gotten away with some great research totally on the fly. I really do NOT recommend this kind of approach. I was VERY lucky. I would like to say some words of encouragement and show sympathy for those of you who have made the great pilgrimage to see the great master books of antiquity. Even if you saw fewer books than you hoped for, I hope you still got a lot out of the trips you took. I'm sure there must have been a bright side. If you missed some books, you can still treasure the rest of the trip. Anyway, I thought I should pass on some things I have learned. First, there are good MS collections to be seen in museums, but you are best served by checking with the museum or others who have gone to find out what gets left on display. When I was at the British Museum/Library it was all in one place and they had a ton of stuff out in several display cases. I am shocked to hear that they don't have as many books out in the new location, and that Lindisfarne is not out! If you want to tap into the resources of places like this you really need to be prepared ahead. If you want to see what they keep behind the doors, there are forms to be filled out before you even go. They really don't want just anybody walking in and pulling out random books for kicks (which is really all any of us are doing as far as the curators are concerned). Each time a book is handled there is a chance of damage, so usually only schoolars doing research get to do that. Some of you will qualify. Most will not. There is also a sliding scale for determining whether you have reason to see the stuff. It depends on the cuator, and how much in demand they are. When I was in St Gallen I got to do actual research off artifacts simply because I was able to produce credentials on the spur of the moment. I had a sample of the URZA's MITRE card I painted for MAGIC:The Addiction so the guy saw that I had a clue about MSS.As I spoke with him he realized that I could actually get some serious research done on the spot in something esoteric (manuscript pigments and waxed tablets), so he was really helpful. he even gave me the name of a pigment specialist in Germany who creates modern "artifacts" with 100% authenticity. On the other hand, in Britain I was only able to see what was on display at Library collections. (However, I was able to vidio tape the Yorvik Viking Center display in a walk through personal tour given by the curator there when I explained that I wanted to share the visuals with people in SCA. We did this after hours so as not to disturb the normal tours which were in electric "cars" and photography is normally forbidden). You also have to know where to look and exactly what to look for THERE. I found virtually no MSS on display in Amsterdam. I also tried to look up the MS page seller there who has the really good stuff. She was out, but sent catelogues after my trip. I did find a great book seller with titles I'd never seen here,and an art supply store which sells all sorts of older type pigments like real terre vert, real verdigris, etc. in powder form! The last bit of advice I would share is to not go to Europe to see what you can see HERE. The British may be masters of world plunder, but we in the US are not too shabby at commendeering other people's valuables either! Some of the best MSS in the world are here in the US and they sometimes travel. You may miss particular ones in Europe, but what you see here will certainly make up for most! M. Katerina tells me of a marvelous collection in the Chicago area which I need to see. The Cloisters in New York and Getty California have tremendous collections of books. So what can you get out of Europe that you can't get here? The actual sites! I picked up a piece of rubble from the Church of St. Albans while they were stripping the wall facings. I got to climb those cork screw stairs narrower than my shoulders to the top of a 13th c. watchtower in the same town. I got to walk along the whole curtain wall of York. I got to walk over a condom strewn alley behind the Old Church of msteram while vidio taping the archetecture. I stood in front of or inside buildings, battlefields and monuments which I had only seen on TV or read about, and the feeling was new and unique! I got to walk through the ruins of a Roman Basillica beneath the floor of one of Europe's finest Cathedrals and vidio tape Henry VIII's kitchens in the round. I got to see reconstructed ancient and medieval rooms, and eat in pubs which may predate my personna. Now thats a trip! The books were just a bonus. It's just a matter of priority and what you expect. Ranthulfr Randy Asplund-Faith Science Ficion & Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:04:24 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: black vs.blue >Dear folks, >I haven't seen the page in question here. However, my impression from my >long study of illuminated capitals is, the color is (dark) blue. It is >quite correct to note the use of black penwork in period; but note that >the black penwork is done with gold letters. Red penwork was done with >blue letters, and blue (sometimes purple) penwork done with red letters, >as a rule. Green letters appear early on, and are rare later, and I >believe have red penwork when they have it at all. -- johannes v.n. Yep! I just want to underscore what Master Johannes has written. This is a medieval taste and pretty much a convention. There may be exceptions here and there, but I wouldn't point to them as excuses to break from this system. May I suggest reds being vermillion (or cadmium red red medium or similar dense warm red), blue being eith indigo + a touch of white or ultramarine + a touch of white. This works for both versals and filligree. In later period you may wish a cooler red like madder hue if the color scheme of the miniature calls for it. Early versals could be verdigris (I like to use chromium oxide green which can be brightened with a light yellow like cad. yellow light or lemon). Fine ground malachite and minium was used a lot in early works for the solid letter fills. Minuim shows in early MSS for making versals sometimes. Fine grade malachite shows in gothic times in penwork. Fine ground malachite, a light color, is the almost powder grade, not the course grains which are dark green. And if you bought the stuff sold as viridian (and was told it was ground from malachite), I would be suspicious that it is not malachite. There has been an identity mistake by one of the merchants in the past. This can be identified as being a much darker and richer green than genuine malachite when fine ground. Medium yellow (like cad. yellow med.) in both opaque and stain form have been used in early pieces as well for color filled letters, but I don't think I've seen that in any filligree, for obvious reasons. Ranthulfr Asparlundr, OL KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith Science Ficion & Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:33:53 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? In a message dated 98-06-09 12:50:58 EDT, juliana@bellatlantic.net writes: << I use white-gold leaf...although it has a very slight yellow tint to it, when put next to regular gold leaf, it is light enough to pass for silver. I've used this for Silver Crescents in the East (a silver crescent atop a gold crown) and it looks just fine. No worry about tarnishing either. Lady Juliana Stafford, Rusted Woodlands, East mka June Lathrop, West Milford, NJ >> if you use blue instead of red bole does it look more silver or more green?-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:00:25 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Silver Leaf? In a message dated 98-06-09 13:52:54 EDT, randyaf@provide.net writes: << Metal leaf of other types was also used in period. I believe tin is the main alternate, but check with someone else on the specifics. They used to imitate golden hue on it by overpainting the tin wiht yellow STAINED oil paint. >> this was one of the uses for gamboge much in the way that Dragon's blood was used to make it appear ruddy-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:28:42 -0700 From: ken stoner Subject: [scribes]: White Gold Leaf June Lathrop wrote: > > I use white-gold leaf...although it has a very slight yellow tint to YES! I also use white gold for my Silver leaf. It has ALL the wonderfull characteristics of gold leaf like: Precision, Ability to burnish up nice, etc. As for WHERE to get white gold... I dont know. I got my book from Thomas. Cystennin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:32:06 -0700 From: ken stoner Subject: [scribes]: WWW Site news. The site is back up. I have transfered the pages from FREYA to my home machine. I *THINK* all of the links work now, but I am unsure. The URL is http://24.0.173.254/ Try it! Cystennin sends ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:22:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Daffy + Chiara Subject: [scribes]: Silver Leaf Hi folks! Interesting that the subject of silver leaf should come up today... My lord's grandmother was watching me do gold leaf today, and said that she used to do it years ago, and would I like her leftover leaf? :) :) :) In addition to the 22k and 18.5k, she had some Palladium. (a type of platinum) I found a little info on it; it doesn't tarnish easily, and burnishes well. I haven't tried it yet, but I'll let you now how it works when I do. Of course, it is probably much more expensive than aluminum or silver... Anyone have any more information on this? Chiara da Ravenna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:22:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Daffy + Chiara Subject: RE: [scribes]: straight ink lines? >What is the best (and hopefully easiest) way to make straight ink lines? >The best I made so far has been with a thin brush and ruler, I've also> >tried a ruling pen(?) the thing that looks like a birds beak with a screw >in between, but it blotted too much. >Anna de Byxe Has anyone tried using a dagger striper? They take some practice, but you can get LOOOONG straight lines without refilling the brush. I've used them for other applications, but never in illumination. Chiara da Ravenna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:08:47 EDT From: Luiseach@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: straight ink lines? Anna de Byxe asked about making straight ink lines and reported that she = had=0Atried a ruling pen, but had trouble with blotting--ruling pens need= to be used=0Awith a raised ruler (this tool was discussed a while ago) t= o avoid blotting.=0AYou might also try a technical pen, again with a rais= ed ruler. I know, I=0Aknow, the tech pen isn't period, but I don't think= the ruling pen is either. My 2=A2 worth, your milage may vary Luighseach ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #68 ****************************