From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #55 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, June 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 055 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Specilize? and Book Review [scribes]: Re: Medieval letters Re: Re: [scribes]: Outlining Re: [scribes]: Good start! Dots Re: [scribes]: Purple as main color? & New Question [scribes]: Bunnies.jpg Re: [scribes]: Doing your own scroll RE: [scribes]: Purple as a main color? Re: [scribes]: Good start! Dots [scribes]: real word Re: [scribes]: real word [scribes]: Bunnies.jpg -Reply [scribes]: Scribal: from Webster's Online Dictionary [scribes]: Re:Doing your own scroll [scribes]: Re: real word - dictionary [scribes]: WEB SITE IS DOWN UNTIL TOMORROW. [scribes]: my own scroll [scribes]: Re: real word - dictionary ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 03:13:33 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Specilize? and Book Review In a message dated 6/2/98 5:01:49 AM, Anna.Troy@bibks.uu.se wrote: <> I do both -- In terms of research, I consider "pre-1000 AD Insular" and "Heraldic Illustration" to be my primary interests. Most of the scribal articles I write are about one of the two topics. Currently in progress are: "How to draw people like an Irish Monk" and "Monster Postures". Just completed for the Tucson Heraldic Symposium Proceedings are "Knots and Dots: The Evidence" , "Knot Good Examples", and some stuff on knotting with the dots method. As you see, I enjoy writing about it as much as doing it. For illustration, painting, illuminating, drawing... I do whatever style has caught my fancy at the time. The last two scrolls I did were Elizabethan style. The next will be either high gothic (lots of gold leaf) or Book of Kells or Pictish -- I haven't decided yet. On the plane back from Denver this evening, I was reading a fascinating book called _The Book of Kells: Proceedings of the Conference in Dublin in Sept. 1992_. It's a weighty tome -- the airline tray was a wonderful help just holding it up. I can hardly wait to sit down with the article about page layout with straight-edge and compass, with my own paper, straight edge, and compass. The words and pictures only go so far -- the fingers must feel, the eyes must see it happen. There was also a delightful (if a tad technical) article on the pigments and painting style, based on non-destructive testing with spectral analyzers. I'm afraid the article on the Western (Irish and British) church's relationships with Rome and the indigenous cultures in the 5th - 9th centuries was more than I could cope with without a good dictionary at hand. But the insights on the (upper class) literacy and important place of books in Irish society was fascinating. And there are plenty of articles left for the next plane ride. The conference proceedings are fascinating, but expensive (about $125 by mail order) but the information is priceless. It is about 500 pages, slick paper, so that's about 20 cents a page, or a tad more. I'm glad I got it, but it is not going to be to everyone's taste. Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid (and Caerthe, these days) Melinda Sherbring, living in LA, commuting to Denver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 03:33:27 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Medieval letters In a message dated 6/2/98 11:08:24 AM, brownwell@home.com wrote: <<("nn" becomes "n~"). Indeed it is. French also has its holdovers, in particular the c-sedilla (a -c- with a contracted -= s- under it) and the hat or circumflex ^ over vowels >> Don't forget German, where the o-umlaut (o with two dots over it) is an= =0Aabbreviation of "oe" and the "S-set" (I can't spell it, but it looks = like a=0Afancy B) is a ligature for two letters "S"-- a long S followed = by a short S,=0Alike in Schloss (castle) that looks like Schlo=DF Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 03:49:04 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [scribes]: Outlining In a message dated 6/2/98 10:11:43 PM, Luiseach@aol.com wrote: <> I cannot seem to get a tech pen to work properly on scrolls (too newfangled, probably) , though they work fine for other illustrations. I outline nearly everything, and encourage others to do so, though I will (grudgingly) admit that not all styles use outline all the time. I use a pointed crowquill and ink, not paint. It gives a lively line, not mechanically perfect, and I can press harder for a thicker line, ease up for a thinner one. I prefer the look. Eowyn Amberdrake, Caid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:35:10 EDT From: EowynA@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Good start! Dots In a message dated 6/4/98 10:12:28 PM, randyaf@provide.net wrote: <> In 1988 I was at Trinity College Library, poring over the manuscripts. The Book of Kells was there, darker of vellum than I expected, with the sheen of old leather. I could make out the figures from the phots in Henry's reproduction better. I was vaguely disappointed that it didn't affect me more. But what absolutely entranced me was the Book of Durrow. The lighting for the whole manuscript area was indirect, read: dark. But the red dots were small shiny mounds, catching what light there was, and reflecting it back. The little domed dots made the page sparkle. Then I knew what the photos could never capture -- the dimensional quality, the light scattering ability of those little dots. Ever after, I have not worried about their shape, but rather their height, and using enough liquid to make the red dots dance by candlelight. Eowyn Amberdrake, who has had far too little sleep lately, and must toddle off to bed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 05:40:13 -0500 From: "Dorinda E Courtine-White" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Purple as main color? & New Question >Now I have a question for you. In Caid it is considered poor taste to do one's >own scroll for an award. I'm pretty sure this is a Westernism that we >inherited. What is the convention in your kingdom? As most scrolls are given with the award in AEthelmearc, and they are surprises, it is tough to do your own scroll. However, my husband did a scroll blank that he became very attached to, and I was sorely tempted to calligraph it for one of his awards and surprise him with his own scroll. I think most people would have thought it was funny, but I was afraid to use his precious scroll without his permission! Dorinda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 08:25:06 -0400 From: Knott Deanna Subject: [scribes]: Bunnies.jpg Greetings Fellow Earthlings and Honored guests! The crossbow weilding bummies are scanned and on the net! The URL is: http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/9523/bunnies.jpg There is no link to the page or off the page. This scroll is not a = surprise, it's a backlog, but, I would rather not have the recipient see = it *before* he gets it in Court. I don't know if he knows that I have a = web page and I don't want him surfing on over and finding it, so, it's = kinda hidden. Feel free to surf the rest of the page and you can see the start of my = cooking research. Yours, Avelina Keyes Du Pont Pursuivant Barony of the Bridge East Kingdom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 08:51:51 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: Re: [scribes]: Doing your own scroll I simply don't want to do my own scrolls because I want to have examples of other people's work. If it were up to me to do my own scroll, I'd keep putting it off in favour of doing them for others, and I'd never get the scrolls.... ;) Miri > > Greetings. :) > > Thomas Brownwell asked: > > Now I have a question for you. In Caid it is considered poor taste to do > one's > own scroll for an award. I'm pretty sure this is a Westernism that we > inherited. What is the convention in your kingdom? > > Well, I can't speak for all of the Middle, but I can say that it happens > here, in this small section; the person to whom I am apprenticed did her > own Laural scroll, by command of the Royal Couple elevating her. I'm not > certain whether she did it between vigiling and elevation, or after > elevation; I never asked. :) > > I myself intend to redo one of my award scrolls (it was destroyed while in > the care of the royalty--I'll tell you the story sometime) and have > considered redoing one other (still another story), but I don't know if you > would consider REPLACING award scrolls in the same category as doing the > initial award scroll. > > Ever your servant, Merouda Pendray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 08:58:10 -0400 From: Knott Deanna Subject: RE: [scribes]: Purple as a main color? Greetings, I was at my friends house last night and before she got married (and had = 4 more kids on top of her first 2. yep 6, and she was Queen of the East = while she was pregnant with #6 wow.), she was interested in calligraphy = and illumination. Now she doesn't have the time. Anyway, she used to = save *stuff* to use as examples. In this stuff that she let me have/use = there were a couple of exmaples of Spanish illumination from somewhere in = the 1100's. These pictures almost looked like how JimBear described the = grasaille. Vived colored background with not so vividly colored figures. = The reason this stuck in my head was because There was a blue, red AND = green backgrounded miniature. I will try to remember to look at the = reference this weekend and post the manuscript info on Monday. (My = e-mail is at work and I leave at 11 am on Fridays. Sorry) It is a = really cool period example of a very colorful background that's not blue = or red. Yours, Avelina Keyes http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/9523 __________________________________________________________________________= _____ From: David Columbus on Thu, Jun 4, 1998 18:54 Subject: Re: [scribes]: Purple as a main color? To: scribes@castle.org >In a message dated 98-06-04 02:39:52 EDT, sknouse@msuvx2.memphis.edu = writes: > ><< I'm going to paint the scroll with these colors including green. > My question is: Does anyone know of any manuscripts that have purple > and/or green in them in large amounts. I have only been able to find > touches of purple in all the books I've searched. Either way I'm going > to use these colors since it is my own personal scroll, but it would be > nice to know if there is any period precedent for these colors being > dominant (in contrast to the normal red and blue dominance). > > -- > Lady Mylisant de la Croix > Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies > > Purpure, two natural seahorses addorsed on a point pointed > argent a crescent inverted sable and on a chief triangular >> > > You might try looking at Italian rennisance scrolls but they won't be = bars >and Ivy. entire vellum is dyed purple and you could go from = there-JimBear Is there any reason WHY you have to have a period exemplar to allow you = to do it? I did one for a friend who's colors were green and purple. All I did was change the blue and red to green and purple. When asked, the reason I gave was, "That's the colors she wanted!" The design is = perfectly period and I find it a refreshing change from blue and red. If your heart says to do something, then don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You're doing this for your satisfaction... not theirs. B'wana Christofano O.L. P.V. - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com with SMTP;4 Jun 1998 18:54:18 -0400 Received: from 24.4.65.87 ("port 37314"@24.4.65.87) by Sonnet.GSC.GTE.Com (PMDF V5.0-8 #17886) id <01IXUKAF5V56000XS4@Sonnet.GSC.GTE.Com> for Knott.Deanna@mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 18:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) id PAA16157 for scribes-list; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moat.castle.org (moat.castle.org [129.46.92.29]) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA16153 for = ; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from junior.apk.net (root@junior.apk.net [207.54.158.15]) by moat.castle.org (8.8.5/8.8.5.s1) with ESMTP id PAA11180 for ; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.54.150.82] (as1-12.akron.apk.net [207.54.150.82]) by junior.apk.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04413 for ; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 18:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 18:43:16 +0100 From: David Columbus Subject: Re: [scribes]: Purple as a main color? In-reply-to: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org To: scribes@castle.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk X-Real-To: X-Authentication-warning: castle.org: majordomo set sender to owner-scribes@castle.org using -f ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:58:30 -0600 (MDT) From: "Morgan E. Smith" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Good start! Dots Additionally, many of the medieval scribes were "placed" into monasteries as the only job open to them, either by their families when they were young, or by lack of alternatives. While they may have had a religious vocation, they might not have been screened for talent in the scribal (is that really a word?) arts. That makes for less-than-inspired artwork (although long practice will give almost everyone a certain competence, within some limits. Morgan the Unknown (delurking for the nonce) On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, John Stracke wrote: > > Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith wrote: > > > Our average scribe could out paint some of those folks without even > > thinking about it. Of course, that in itself makes me wonder about whether > > such paint films were what they were really going for, or if the guys in > > the scriptorium were just not too hip on better methods. > > Or perhaps they were trying out some new material that looked fine in their > lifetimes. Do you remember if all the glossy ones were from that scriptorium? > > /=================================================================\ > |John Francis Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| > |francis@thibault.org |===========================================| > |Crosston, Mists, West| Any time somebody has a conditioned | > |My LAN, my opinions. | response, they *always* think of Pavlov! | > \=================================================================/ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:17:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Elizabeth Maes Subject: [scribes]: real word Scribal isn't a "real" word, as in it isn't in the dictionary. (Of course, I don't own a copy of the OED.) However, words are what you make of them ..... Moragh _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:35:15 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: Re: [scribes]: real word Elizabeth Maes wrote: > > Scribal isn't a "real" word, as in it isn't in the dictionary. (Of > course, I don't own a copy of the OED.) > > However, words are what you make of them ..... > > Moragh > All right, now you've done it- I'm curious-which dictionary? Miri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:43:18 -0400 From: Michel Macdonald Subject: [scribes]: Bunnies.jpg -Reply Beautiful - What a great job you have done. Be sure to keep color copies of the scroll before you give it out for your own records. Michel Beautiful, just beautiful ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:41:03 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: [scribes]: Scribal: from Webster's Online Dictionary Main Entry: scribal Pronunciation: 'skrI-b&l Function: adjective Date: 1857 : of, relating to, or due to a scribe Okay, so it's OOP, but it IS in there... ;) Miri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:50:37 EDT From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re:Doing your own scroll I was given my AoA at the same time as I was inducted into the AEthelmearc order for arts and sciences (Order of the Sycamore). The scroll is a very lovely 2 page Italian Renaissance style. One page is an illumination and the other the text. The fact that I was awarded Arms is barely mentioned, it skims over that to get right to the reason for the Sycamore. There is neither blazon nor emblazon anywhere on the scroll and no room to add them. I have always wanted a "traditional" AoA scroll to display my Arms on. So I'm doing one. I would do the same for anyone else who never received one. Why should I change the rules just because it's something _I_ want?. The words on a scroll mean far more to me than the pretty picture (That's a funny attitude for an illuminator isn't it? ). I have written a wording that brings me close to tears when I read it. No other scribe could have found the words to touch me so deeply. Not even my beloved lord husband. Yet it's shorter than most of the AoA's I do. It's something that could be read in court and understood by the populace. This is my gift to myself and I am grateful for the opportunity to do a scroll for my harshest critic ;-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:35:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Elizabeth Maes Subject: [scribes]: Re: real word - dictionary OED: Oxford English Dictionary This is the most comprehensive dictionary of the English language. It is HUGE. It includes American English, as well as British English, colloquialisms, slang, etc. etc. E.g. I saw an interview with the members of Monty Python from last fall. One made a comment about the fact that they never intended to be famous or notable, just have fun. Another replied that they had obviously failed, since the word 'Pythonesque' - referring to their particular style of humor - was now in the Oxford English Dictionary. - ---Heather Swann wrote: > > Elizabeth Maes wrote: > > > > Scribal isn't a "real" word, as in it isn't in the dictionary. (Of > > course, I don't own a copy of the OED.) > > > > However, words are what you make of them ..... > > > > Moragh > > > All right, now you've done it- I'm curious-which dictionary? > > Miri > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:51:30 PST From: "Ken Stoner" Subject: [scribes]: WEB SITE IS DOWN UNTIL TOMORROW. Well, work finally founf out about freya.elgar.com. I have to take it down. It will be back up at my home machine by the end of the weekend. I'll post details later. Ken. Lord Cystennin Ap Gereint Drafn Calafia Caid aka Ken Stoner, San Diego --------- SCA Scribes list maintainer. E-Mail here for Qustions SCA_SCRIBES Web Site and FAQ http://freya.elgar.com/scribes.htm - --- "So longs as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee. " - W. Shakespear, Sonnet 18. - --- Argent, on a bend cotised azure between two pine trees couped sable a sword inverted proper. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:50:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Elizabeth Maes Subject: [scribes]: my own scroll I had the great honor to receive two awards in one reign. For a rather complicated reason, their majesties who gave me a Purple Fret (Midrealm service award) for doing so much C&I stuff for them didn't get to give me a scroll for it. I considered shopping around for someone to do it: e.g., I considered asking my Laurel. I then looked around my living room and saw: my Willow done by a previous student my (first) Purple Fret done in a manner 100% period (and period for me) on parchment with period pigments, etc. my lord's Purple Fret done by his squire brother my lord's Willow done by my squire brother No where in my house is any original artword of MINE. So, I'm doing the scroll for my Purple Fret. I would really like to have some of my own art in my house and I just never seem to get around to doing anything just for me. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:54:17 -0400 From: Heather Swann Subject: [scribes]: Re: real word - dictionary Oh, sorry, not what I meant...I have a copy of the O.E.D. at home and know what it is...I'm just asking what dictionary you were referring to as the one that had not got 'scribal' in it..... ;) Miri > > OED: Oxford English Dictionary > > This is the most comprehensive dictionary of the English language. It > is HUGE. It includes American English, as well as British English, > colloquialisms, slang, etc. etc. > > E.g. > I saw an interview with the members of Monty Python from last fall. > One made a comment about the fact that they never intended to be > famous or notable, just have fun. Another replied that they had > obviously failed, since the word 'Pythonesque' - referring to their > particular style of humor - was now in the Oxford English Dictionary. > > ---Heather Swann wrote: > > > > Elizabeth Maes wrote: > > > > > > Scribal isn't a "real" word, as in it isn't in the dictionary. (Of > > > course, I don't own a copy of the OED.) > > > > > > However, words are what you make of them ..... > > > > > > Moragh > > > > > All right, now you've done it- I'm curious-which dictionary? > > > > Miri ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #55 ****************************