From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #44 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 044 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: What are you working on [scribes]: scrolls and money Re: [scribes]: mail order supplies [scribes]: re: what are you working on Re: [scribes]: What are you working on Re: [scribes]: re: what are you working on [scribes]: current project [scribes]: charging for scrolls - long [scribes]: My scribal web site Re: [scribes]: re: what are you working on Re: [scribes]: What are you working on Re: [scribes]: What are you working on Re: [scribes]: Medieval letters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:52:13 EDT From: MRomero106@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: What are you working on I currently am in the finishing details of versals for a second of a matched AoA scroll.I have had to redo this one since somewhere water seeped onto it. SIGH... and I could not remove enough of the paint that was transferred onto unwanted areas. another SIGH... After this one I have already been commisioned to do a Royal Company of Archers scroll (w/grant oA) and then I have promised my wife that I would do her Viscountal scroll. (Brave lady indeed). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Naquiib Zaid al-fallah Hajji (Merced Romero,Jr.) Barony of Fett Burg Principality of Cynagua Kingdom of the west (whew!) Stockton,Ca ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:27:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Elizabeth Maes Subject: [scribes]: scrolls and money In the course of the past 8 or so years as a scribe, I have never been paid for a scroll I did for the kingdom. I do them as a service to the Crown, just as an autocrat or event cook does that as a service to the Crown and kingdom. I would not turn down a token from the recipient or my Queen/King if offered - that would be rude. However, what does one do about awards given for which a scroll never got done? One: tell the person in your kingdom/region and request one, then wait your turn, or Two: commission one. I am awaiting a commission for a Dragon's Tooth (an award for valor on the field of (heavy) combat). It was awarded on the spot, so of course there was no scroll. Not that I mind, really!! But, this put me in the pleasant position of being able to "shop" for the artist who could do exactly what I wanted. I decided to offer the commission to one of my students. It gives him practice, I know he does great work, I get what I wanted, and POOF, I even get surprised by the final product. In this situation, I would encourage a person to initiate the approach with an offer of repayment and leave it up to the scribe to decide how much their time and effort is worth. Ultimately, you, as the buyer, can decide whether or not you want to pay the going price. In this situation, as well as the situation where you are getting a 'nicer' scroll or 'more period for you' scroll or just replacing one the dog ate, I encourage people to be reasonable about offering payment. This can be monetary or barter: work it out ahead. Moragh inghean Eoghain Barony of Northwoods Canton to be named at an even later date Midrealm _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:10:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Lynn Arthur Subject: Re: [scribes]: mail order supplies I have found another online paper supplier with somewhat lower prices than Paper and Ink. http://www.artpaper.com/ They list 32 papers for calligraphy, with several other categories of papers. They have a $20 minimum, but it is very easy to put this together. (sigh) They are very helpful and friendly, too. Lucia Bellini ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 23:27:31 -0300 From: Guy & Sharon Campbell Subject: [scribes]: re: what are you working on Greetings, all! It was asked what folks are working on. At the moment I am a busy little novice scribe....what I am working on is a group of four AoA scrolls, 8-10 scroll blanks that are promised to Their Eastern Majesties, and a similar number that will eventually find their way to the Midrealm...scroll blanks in this context meaning original scrolls with the name of the recipient's name, the emblazon of his/her device, and the date left blank, for the Eastern scrolls; and for the Middle, scrolls with just illumination, for this batch, also originals. One of the AoA's, not yet started, is the one about which I asked the "yet another question". I have contacted the Seneschal of that group for more information, and depending on the reply, I may well do two scrolls for that gentle (one with the suggested in-joke, and one "for real"). Thanks to all who replied to my question on that. The Eastern scroll blanks are going well. There are several French Gothic, a few Celtic, a few Caroline/ Ottonian, and there may be some 16th century Italian next. I am still working on layout and stuff for the Midrealm scrolls. I am trying to do them in an Arabic style, or some of them, at least, based solely on _one_ book. It remains to be seen whether or not this will work....after the Insular minuscule fiasco, I wouldn't count on it. The Midrealm scrolls may end up looking very much like the scrolls I recently sent to the Eastern Crown. Oh well. 'Bye for now. In service to Crown and Coronet Lady Felicity Blindshooter of Wolfsgate (Tamatha-Lynn Campbell) in Mycghalh the still not Incipient (Middleton, Nova Scotia) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:57:53 -0600 From: Holly and Jake Gassel Subject: Re: [scribes]: What are you working on You mean besides working on starting a business cuz I'm getting laid off from the hospital, and working two jobs, and fixin' for the kids to be out of school for the summer, and...and...and.... Starting an Icelandish 10th century Thegn scroll, and working on trading a couple of knight scrolls for cool garb, and a couple more GoA level scrolls for some boots and...and...and.... Ms. Aidan Cocrinn Barony of al-Barran Kingdom of the Outlands (Just finished 5 tourney winner scrolls for the Outlandish Banneret Tourney and a bunch of preprints for the same that didn't get used cuz the people who preregistered for the tourney didnt show up, and a bunch more did...grrrrr.....) Michel Macdonald wrote: > > Greetings from Lady Michel Almond > > I was wondering "What is everyone working on"? > > Also, How is it going? > > I am working on a back log AOA scroll. Plate 30, Kings Charles VI > Conversing with the Author from The Golden Age page 30. > > This scroll has two lovely peacocks that I am having a hard time with. > The tails look great, but the bodies look king of funny. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:47:04 -0700 From: Curtis & Mary Subject: Re: [scribes]: re: what are you working on It was asked what folks are working on. Well, I'm recovering from a number of illnesses and injuries of the last ccouple of months, most recently a reaction to penicillan, tho feeling better today than in several weeks. But the following are on the next two weeks agenda: callig a set of Thegn / Banthegn scrolls {given to past Barons/Baroness} and get them to the illuminator Callig & illum a set of landed Baron & Baroness scrolls finish a Master at Arms & an Award of Arms {if possible for an event on June 13/14} Sew a new suit for a ladies daughter's wedding end of June/1st of July & measure a fellow for a new angelwing tunic THEN: do a new set of masters for copy and paint scrolls, Aoa's and as many others as I can get done Catch up my e-mail etc., and mail things I promised to people a while back Play with the loom I have coming next week and make payments on the big loom coming later in the fall,in the meantime spinning as fast as I possibly can Teach new stuff to my apprentice {and get her to wash & card the fleece in exchange for part of it.....} June 18 go do a 3 hour program at the library in Pima for teenagers {shiver!} Half of the timeon fibers, spinning and weaving, half of the time something to do with call & ill and book making..... Go to Known World Herald's Symposium YEAH!! Take one kid to the airport and go later and the other one.......I'm sure there's more, doesn't count a coupleof backlog scrolls on my lists, scanning and editing stuff for the new Scribe's Handbook, stuff for TRM for whatever the next event is....And I have no clue what we're doing in July.... Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:50:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Cecelia M. Hughes" Subject: [scribes]: current project Right now I am working on a laurel scroll for a laurel in music. I composed a text in Latin, and Mistress Ellisif Flakkari set it to period-style music. The final product may well turn into two pages; it is in the style of a period choirbook. I'm basing it on a piece that I saw at the manuscript display and sale at the Josephinum in Columbus, Ohio, back in April. The arms and particulars of Crown and place given will be in a gloss off to one side, and I'll include an interlinear translation. By the bye, Arches does a black cold press (I think) paper. Has anyone ever tried this for one of the dyed pieces? I picked up a piece the other day, and I'm dying to try it! Graidhne ni Ruaidh BMDL, AEthelmearc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:37:41 PDT From: "I.C. Kessler" Subject: [scribes]: charging for scrolls - long I apologise for stirring up old controversy. I never meant to imply that the recipient of an award was charged for their award scroll, but for custom scrolls specifically commissioned to replace a promissory or because the dog ate it. I have never charged anyone for a scroll although I did have someone who had commissioned a couple of scrolls give me a burnisher so that I could work with real gold. The source of my assumptions was a compendium of Kingdoms' scribes' handbooks compiled by Ld. Erik Thurmansson of Meridies about three years ago. Specifically this quote from the An Tir scribes' handbook which contained a Q&A section: "Q: Lord Gonzo asked me to do his Jambe de Lion. We've settled on a price and have discussed the sort of things he want on his scroll. His name and device have passed. Now, what do I do? "A: First both the recipient and the contracted scribe write to the Kingdom/Chief Scribe requesting this arrangement..." This bit from the "Outlands Scribes Handbook" seems to be representative of most Kingdoms' policies: "There is no charge for scrolls provided with Kingdom awards. It is, however, permitted for the recipient to make a donation to the scribe to defray the costs of time or materials. If the recipient of an award wished to commission a scroll from a particular scribe, the arangement is treated as a private contract between the two individuals." On the other hand the West seems to have the most strictly regulated scribes' orginization, requesting an exemplar from it's would-be scribes, and requiring two kingdom scrolls a year to maintain your scribe's warrant. Here's what the "General Policies of the West Kingdom College of Scribes" has to say on the subject: "Producing award scrolls is supposed to be a contribution to the Society, not a money making opportunity. Any scribe who takes money for doing award scrolls in the West will have their warrant pulled and will no longer be allowed to scribe in the Kingdom of the West. The _only_ exception to this policy is if the recipient wants to use rather expensive "extras" on their scroll(i.e. gold leaf and real vellum) you may then ask them to pay for the materials unless you are ready to pay for them yourself." I do not know if these examples represent merely the ideal of if they are actually practiced. All the kingdoms encourage scribes to put forth their best efforts, and use the best materials they can afford. I do believe that most scribes willingly, happily, can do this and the SCA is not exactly a poor man's hobby. Perhaps as work loads increase or real life puts restraints on our liesure time, burn-out starts to set in. Is it any wonder that a person with a special talent, that is in demand, who gives away their best pieces, each representing hours of work and expensive materials will feel that perhaps their generosity is being taken advantage of? Don't you feel sometimes that the work of scribes is occasionally taken for granted? On a lighter note: the cure to this particular type of scribal burn out: 1) Take your burnt-out scribal friend to any Ren-Faire. Find the little kiosk with the 40-year old hippie lady in it who sits there all day calligraphing out Bible verses, so-cute-you-could-vomit hallmark card sayings and kitchen wisdom onto cheap parchment with schaeffer cartridge pens and charges an obscene amount of money for them. 2) Say "Well, here's where the money is." 3) Run screaming back to your table/lectern and flip open your Visconti Hours reproduction to LF22 and draw little pictures of demons with fire shooting out of their arses 'til you both feel better. :) - - Isabel ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:47:47 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: [scribes]: My scribal web site Hi, I have placed some ductus pages on my Barony's web site at http://avoca.vicnet.net.au/~anachronauts/scribal/ these are done in the Drogin style. They can be copied to the scribes list site if that is agreeable. as ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:09:47 PDT From: "I.C. Kessler" Subject: Re: [scribes]: re: what are you working on I'm working on 1) Mistress Daphne's Pelican scroll. It's based on Paris, Bibliotheque de Sainte-Genevieve, MS.777, folio 316r. Or in plain english, the "Livy's history of Rome" page reproduced in De Hamel's "History of Illuminated MS" I'm replacing the two greyhounds below with a red dobie and a chihuahua: Mistress Daphne's dogs. In the top panels will be episodes from her stints in kingdom offices. It's pretty spiffy so far. 2) KSCA scroll for Sir John the Pursewer (autocrat of Gulf Wars 7&8). I'm planning a 12th c. english type scroll in the style of the Winchester Bible. Maybe with one of those top-to-bottom left hand border illuminations a la f.342. 3) A secret project with a rush order on it. 4) A big round table with the devices of the folks in my household on it. The aforementioned Sir John has done most of the work on it I'm just helping out painting the devices. I love heraldic display. This is the second one like this we've done. 5) Tooling a ceremonial sword scabbard & belt. 6) Planning a heraldic display subtlety for a feast for an event Seleone bid on. Waiting to find out if we got the event or not. Here's the plan: two sheet cakes in the shape of an escutcheon iced with the devices of Meridies and Gleann Abhainn, each tipped up at about a 20 degree angle with a gilded gingerbread helm & crest on the top. Meridies' crest to my knowledge is Argent flames issuing from a three-pointed crown so I was thinking a bit of pound cake soaked in 151 some matches and *FLOOM*. Sounds spectacular, eh? 7) Putting together material for a class on diapering, both on gold and paint. Part hands-on part overview with handouts of examples. Also with a rush order on it. 8) Other duties as deemed necessary. And then in my spare time....LOL. - Isabel ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:15:53 -0700 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: What are you working on Michel Macdonald wrote: > Greetings from Lady Michel Almond > > I was wondering "What is everyone working on"? I recently completed a backlog AoA scroll; the recipient requested knotwork, and I knew that what I'd done in knotwork before probably wasn't period (a single set of strands, all the way around, rather than dividing the border up into smaller strands), so I looked at the Book of Kells and found something interesting: a page where the border is indented in several places, with figures sitting in the indentations and looking into the page. I did something similar, with two large indentations for the seals, and with the device on a lozenge (as requested), slightly overlapping the indented border on each side. It looks pretty cool; it's on my portfolio page, . I also just (last night) finished a Rose Leaf (Western arts award) for my wife; it's sort of ordinary (basic vine border), but it's my first time doing gold leaf and my first time putting a picture of a person (my wife) on the scroll. It's also tiny--4"x6"--because I wanted to see just how small I could work. This one is also on my portfolio page. So I'm between assignments, but I've got a couple of non-award-scroll committments to take care of, too--a fairly simple for-pay piece of calligraphy for a friend, and a scroll of our wedding vows which I originally wanted to get done for Valentine's Day. Those should hold me until I get a new assignment (Wednesday :-). /=================================================================\ |John Francis Stracke | http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| |francis@thibault.org |===========================================| |Crosston, Mists, West| Any time somebody has a conditioned | |My LAN, my opinions. | response, they *always* think of Pavlov! | \=================================================================/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:35:07 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: What are you working on > >Greetings from Lady Michel Almond > > > >I was wondering "What is everyone working on"? > > I doing a "page from a book of hours" this is one of the competitions for the Principality Midwinter A&S. Its 120 * 90 mm on thinned vellum, I chose to do a January calander in a French Bartade with minimal decoration, so the astrological image and task of the month are in 25 mm roundels. A am working on both sides so there is margins and registration to get right. I am doing a viscounty scroll on vellum this is a big one 600 * 450 mm. It is based on the Tres Riches calander illumination. This is a pair to the one I delivered last midwinter. I have also filled in the blanks for a pair of AoA blanks and sent them to an artist now living well out of town (350km). Also, getting ready for a mundane exhibition, the local calligraphy society has arranged with a gallery here for them to have an exhibition for sale of works. I hope to get three pieces in the exhibition, depends on space available, as when I first inquired it was quite limited. The pieces are a shakesperian speach (The quality of mercy) done in italiac with a vine leaf border. The song of the raost swan with music from Carmina Burana and a Provincal love song. All pieces I have done for mundane competitions (last two got highly commended). I have been very slack and I am not doing much at all. as ever Thorfinn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:56:31 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Medieval letters Greetings, friends, from Thomas in sunny Calafia (well, it's dark now, but it *would* be sunny if it were three hours earlier...) Ranthulfr wrote a nice reply about the emergence of and deletion of letters from common use. At the end he added a brief mention of a subject that's dear to my heart: ligatures and abbreviations. As a calligrapher, I use period sources as my templates for a particular hand. If an illuminator hands me a document and says "It's going to look like *this*", I then try to match the painting style with an appropriate hand by thumbing through the books, lo the many that line my shelves. In an effort to broaden my horizons, I early on did a long search through UCSD's main library looking for calligraphy sources, figuring that this was where I'd find excellent examples to copy. Much to my dismay, most of the books were on copperplate or modern calligraphy techniques, and *none* of them had any reference to medieval manuscripts. So I scratched my head and pondered and basically convinced myself that there had to be more, only in wholly different section. Then I found it, or more precisely, them. Two categories that are never mentioned in calligraphy books (the only source that beginners ever see) are now my favorites: Paleography and Epigraphy. The former literally translates as Old Writing, while the latter is the study of grafitti. In particular, any book that has "Latin Paleography" in it is usually an excellent resource. My two favorites, both available from amazon.com, are "Latin Paleography" by Bischoff, and "Greek and Latin Paleography" by Thompson. Since all of our period references are in Latin with *very* few exceptions, I have found these two books to be invaluable, because one of the things that can make a scroll really authentic is to include period ligatures and abbreviations. For the uninitiated, a ligature is the smooshing-together of two letters to make one new letter-form. The most famous and still currently used is the ET ligature, modernly typeset as &, but which has numerous forms in period. I *always* use it instead of the word "and" on my scrolls, and if you find an Anglo-Saxon interlinear gloss (like in the Arundel Psalter), you'll find that they used it for the pre-English "and" too. There are lots of others. The next most common one is connecting a long S to a following T. In some of the unusual continental hands contemporary with Carolingian like Merovingian or Luxeuil, you'll find ligatures all over the place, c-t, s-t, e-t, e-n, e-r, &c. How do you figure out what they all are? How do you learn to recognize them, and thereby put them to use? Well, I couldn't on my own, and while Drogin does an excellent job of introducing the idea, his lists are by no means complete. So, Paleography books come to the rescue and point the way. Another topic is abbreviations. Almost all of us have seen the simplest one, where a final "em" is shortened to a final "e" with a line (curved or straight, serifed or not) over it. There are tons more of them, and the list grew through the centuries. A fairly standard list was used by almost every scribe by the 10th century, and there were regional variations as well. By the 13th century, as much as 10 to 15% of a books size might be eliminated by heavy abbreviations. Without a strong background in Latin, it's impossible to figure out whether a "p" with a line under it is supposed to be "per", "pro", or "pre". Bischoff's book gives the answer. "Per" is (usually) a "p" with a bar through the descender, "Pre" is a "p" with a bar over it, and "Pro" is a "p" with a curly-tailed bar through the descender that loops on the left side. There are thousands of others, some common, some not. All of them help make a scroll look right, and if you're going to add those "embellishments" to get the right feel to the text, you might as well have the pleasure of putting them in the right places! I think I've pontificated enough, not that I claim to be a pontiff, nor a bridge, nor a ... It's late, I can tell. Bed-time for me... P.S. If you come across an unusual ligature or abbreviation, I'd love to get the books down and help you out in translating it. Au Revoir, & a` demain. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #44 ****************************