From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #37 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Saturday, May 30 1998 Volume 02 : Number 037 In this issue: [scribes]: Re: abecedarian sentences Re: [scribes]: Lectern or Table-long Re: [scribes]: Letter of Introduction [scribes]: Charging for scrolls [scribes]: Medieval letters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:44:39 -0400 From: "C.J. Schaffer" Subject: [scribes]: Re: abecedarian sentences Margaret Cameron wrote: Te canit adcelebratque polus rex gazifer hymnis. Trans zephyrique globum scandunt tua facta per axem. BTW, such phrases are called "abecedarian" sentences...... please note that these phrases contain all of the letters that were available circa 790 c.e. (and not necessarily everything that's available today). Me? I haven't counted 'em, myself. - --------------- Interesting. These sentences have no j,k,v, or w. When did these letters enter our alphabet? Nils Olafsson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:59:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Lynn Arthur Subject: Re: [scribes]: Lectern or Table-long Good gentles, Thank you, thank you for your answers to my questions about nibs and ink. I plan to order a set each of Tape and Brause nibs on Monday, as soon as Paper and Ink opens. I decided to try them both, since they got so many recommendations. And I realize that maybe I need to apply a little less pressure when working-- I'll try! Thank you one and all. Lucia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:39:19 EDT From: Varju@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Letter of Introduction In a message dated 98-05-30 01:53:44 EDT, you write: << As you may know in Meridies we don't charge for scrolls, I understand that in some places they do.>> I've never heard of charging for a scroll before. Now i feel like I'm missing out on a money-making opourtunity. :-> Noemi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:16:51 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: [scribes]: Charging for scrolls This is a message to people who are newer to the list. We talked last winter about the idea of charging for scrolls and the different expectations of different kingdoms. We found that these subjects are very sensitive and tended to generate comments which sometimes became less than sensitive to the beliefs of members in the different regions. We pretty much agreed to tread lightly and tried to phrase our words so they wouldn't imply that any particular belief was less valid than another. I want to caution the list that this minefield really requires proceeding with a bayonet in the sand in front of you. Whether or not to charge for a scroll brings up certain issues of propriety and fairness. On one hand there is the custom of the gift. On the other is the validity of respecting a craftsperson for what they do as one would any other marketable skill. There is also the issue of Kingdoms putting pressure on scribes toward one direction or another. There ARE both good and bad points in both directions. I think the bottom line is: If you are happy with it, it works. If you feel abused, don't do it. If you don't like the system and want it changed in your own area, then get off your butt and talk it up. And if it is some other kingdom's rule where you have no vested interest other than your own belief system, then please have the generosity to allow them their own way of doing their thing without criticism. Ranthulfr Randy Asplund-Faith Science Ficion & Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 16:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: [scribes]: Medieval letters > >Interesting. These sentences have no j,k,v, or w. When did these >letters >enter our alphabet? >Nils Olafsson They >came in at different times and through different means. Did you know that >before the gothic period there was not a dot over the "i"? However, it >was proper to dot over the "y". "i" and "j" are the same letter through >much of the middle ages and still show up that way on contemporary >archetecture, etc. when it is trying to be formal, classical. >Thorn and eth are two letters making norse/germanic "th" sounds. The >thorn started as a rune which looked like a "P" made by a staff with the >loop formrd by a triangle of two lines. In script it ended up looking a >lot like the letter we think of as "y", but whith a straight descending >left side and a open toppped curved loop on the right. It still gets seen >around once in a while thanks to the English and Irish. >Eth is the th sound of "that" or "then" and is spelled a a "d" with a >slash through the ascender or through the vertical in the upper case >version. "U" and "V" are exactly the same letter. both the >straight and curved versions are appropriate for either spelling depending >on time and place. I've seen both in the same script for both sounds. In >fact, in some cases, the "v" was used to start a word because it allowed a >longer, more flourished lead in stroke. The Roman way of >spelling "W" is to write a double "U". Duh. Then later on, versions >appeared linking the two "U"s together. In the meantime, those nothern >european/norse types had a "www" sound which they already had a rune for. >Enter the letter "wen". Wen looks almost indistinguishable from a lower >case "p" when written in pre-gothic insular script. Confused >yet? Try ligatures and other conjoined letters. Ha! Just when you get that >down, you discover medieval abreviations and .... Ranthulfr Asparlundr OL, KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith Science Ficion & Fantasy Illustration 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #37 ****************************