From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #31 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, May 28 1998 Volume 02 : Number 031 In this issue: Fwd: [scribes]: Heraldic Colors Fwd: [scribes]: ? on work surface angles Re: [scribes]: MIDLAUREL: Fwd: Re: A Laurel answering you call.. [scribes]: Scribes postings Re: [scribes]: Lectern or Table-long ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:37:12 EDT From: Estoille@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [scribes]: Heraldic Colors This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_896369832_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369832@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi everyone!-JimBear here.........I'm using Ghislaine's name 'cause only the scribes list is bouncing me everywhere-hope this works - --part0_896369832_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369832@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Return-path: To: Estoille@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [scribes]: Heraldic Colors Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:20:36 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_896369832_boundary" - --part1_896369832_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369832@inet_out.mail.aol.com.3> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII forward please - --part1_896369832_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369832@inet_out.mail.aol.com.4> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Return-path: To: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: Heraldic Colors Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 01:56:04 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-05-26 00:43:56 EDT, FITCHYBEAR writes: THIS GOT BOUNCED THE FIRST TIME I SENT IT SO IF YOU GET IT TWICE I AM SORRY << I have a question about heraldic colors: Can someone describe a heraldic pallet in terms of W&N Gouache or a Pantone system? I'm particularly interested in how to represent red, green, blue and purple. (Black is pretty much black, huh?) And when should one use metallic gold and silver as opposed to yellow and white? (and if you're using yellow, what shade)? I've been told that helms should be metallic and mantling should not. Is the rest pretty much up to the scribe and recipient? Yours, Genevieve d'Evreux >> I pulled out my copy of "A Dictionary of Heraldry" by Stephan Friar ISBN 0-517-56665-6 the colours are as follows: Tincture Base Colour Modelling Colours Or Brilliant Yellow Burnt Sienna+ Vandyke Brown Argent Left unpainted Zinc White+Dark Grey Gules Scarlet Lake Alizarin Crimson + Havannah Lake Azure Cerulean Blue Cobalt + Prussian Blue Vert Winsor Emerald Cyprus Green + Prussian Blue Sable Dark Grey Lamp Black or Zinc White Purpure Light Purple + Zinc White Prussian Blue + Alizarin Crimson Tenne (Tawny) Orange Lake Light Alizarin Crimson + Magenta Sanguine Alizarin Crimson Havannah Lake Murrey(Mullberry) Magenta + Zinc White Alizarin Crimson Outline Burnt Sienna + Lamp Black This is according to Friar who was (at the time) Director of The Society for Heraldic Arts and contributors were several noteworthy folks, John Brooke- Little, Norroy and Ulster King of Arms, and Malcom R. Innes, Lord Lyon King of Arms of Scotland. I think these were what has been used for the last century or so the colors will vary the earlier you go........ regarding the use of metallics instead of colour, I use metallics as an accent say on achievements (In Caid, we use a white helm with gold accents for Knights, Laurels and Pelicans, Yellow helms with metallic gold trim for Royal Peers.......I don't know if this is society wide or not)-JimBear >> - --part1_896369832_boundary-- - --part0_896369832_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:37:14 EDT From: Estoille@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [scribes]: ? on work surface angles This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_896369834_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369834@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII trying another response-JimBear - --part0_896369834_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369834@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Return-path: To: Estoille@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [scribes]: ? on work surface angles Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:18:38 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_896369834_boundary" - --part1_896369834_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369834@inet_out.mail.aol.com.3> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII please post - --part1_896369834_boundary Content-ID: <0_896369834@inet_out.mail.aol.com.4> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Return-path: To: scribes@castle.org Subject: Re: [scribes]: ? on work surface angles Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:40:30 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-05-26 19:28:23 EDT, FITCHYBEAR writes: I keep getting mailer error messages so I'll try to keep sending if you get this twice, I 'm sorry << < As a calligrapher, I am able to write on a flat surface if there is a clip on the dip pen, but it always seems mechanically better to work on a slope of between 30 and 45 degrees. As an illuminator, you couldn't force me to paint on a slope. Watercolor modern work sometimes, but never illumination. I find it a real impediment to my brush handling mechanics. Also, on a flat table I can change my view from above to down next to it and close to the paper if I can lean down. That makes it easier to see up close when I am working small. And then, I also like to keep a lot of tools and shells of color close to what I am working on. They tend to slide off on even a gentle slope. The medieval scribes and illuminators I've seen depicted usually work like this for calligraphing and illuminating. I also note that there were portable calligraphy stands like the one in the photo on my website which could be placed on a flat desktop when the worker wished to calligraph. Ranthulfr Asparlundr >> If I HAVE to calligraph, I usually find that 35-45 degree angle is best for me especially if using a quill or dip pen, if I use my rotring art pen I have no problem with just about any angle. When Illuminating, I'll tilt the table anywhere from 20-80 degrees( most of the time at around 25 degrees). I've found that I usually will use a saucer for my palette using the center ring as the darkest shade and directly below at the 6:00 position, I place my lightest or thinnnest I stick the palette to the table top with double stick tape and my water vessel goes into the center of my drafting tape. when I have my area set up, I have a pine shelf that is exactly the same width as the entire tabletop and about 5" deep, on that I keep my reference materials (DVT, mock up, examplars, etc.) and my egg yolk and garlic juice (if needed). I am currently working the bugs out on a design for a free standing portable scribes desk which will accomodate two scribes and has a removable, top so if you need a flat surface, you have one. I won't be able to start on the prototype until around July at the earliest, as I am quite busy until Caid's coronation then I'm off to Lilies for 10 days.-JimBear >> - --part1_896369834_boundary-- - --part0_896369834_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:05:41 EDT From: AngelODay@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: MIDLAUREL: Fwd: Re: A Laurel answering you call.. In a message dated 5/27/98 10:40:13 PM Central Daylight Time, randyaf@provide.net writes: > >The following forward is private email - the gentle asked on the > >Middlebridge for the assistance of a Laurel, so I wrote. It seems his > >Lady is a beginner at Calligraphy and Illumination and in need of advice > >and guidance. Well now... don't you just *love* that feeling of waking up first thing in the morning to check your Email, and getting that feeling of being hit by a speeding bus? Greeting unto the scribes of the Knowne world, does Aine inghean Cillin give. Warily do I send this message, but since this lord, who's so ambitious for his lady, happens to belong to me.. I guess that I ought to. I'm very protective of my works, I've only been doing this for three months, and with minimal guidance. I am *far* from confident enough to have them up on the web with Laurels and Scribes of the Knowne world going to see (he told me he just wanted to scan them for our web page). But the damage has been done and with the emails circling the globe. The best that I can do is hang on and next time my lord says "trust me".. be very afraid. ;D Note that all the illuminations up there are scroll blanks.. One because I was told that they were needed, and two because my calligraphy is just plain bad, three because I'm new at this! They're done in water color the gold is gouache, on Bristol board. Pretty much because a dear Lady in my Shire decided that I needed to do illumination more often, and bought them for me as an early birthday gift. So I welcome your input, some of the stuff he chose to put up there I really hate. Like the "C" with the peacocks and the Dragons Heart. All I ask is that you try and be kind, because the fact that this has been done, has sort of put me into shock. Regards.. ~~ Aine http://www.crosswinds.net/chicago/~conchobar/Aine/portfolio/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:22:24 -0500 From: Ed Powell Subject: [scribes]: Scribes postings Greetings; I have just found and subscribed to the Forum. I am less than up on all = e-mail and web sites for scribes. In fact it was my apprentice who told = me of this site. In refrence to your request my mundane name is Lee Powell. I am = currently residing in Memphis, Tennessee. (Barony of Grey Niche / = Kingdom of Meridies). My intrests lie in the areas of calligraphy, = Illumination, Period paints, Pigments, Ect. Thanks Again Master Loren Blackthorne Barony of Grey Niche mka. Lee Powell 374 E. Erwin=20 Memphis, tennessee 38117 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:55:31 -0400 (EDT) From: stacey jill wahrman Subject: Re: [scribes]: Lectern or Table-long On Wed, 27 May 1998, Susan Lynn Arthur wrote: > > I have been using Higgins waterproof ink to date. Is it possible the ink > is a factor, as in too thick? I just purchased some Sumi ink (in the > recommended green bottle) but haven't had a chance to test it yet. > > If the problem is more likely the nib, can you suggest alternatives? As > noted above, I do like a fairly stiff nib. > sure it will be terrific. > > Thanks, > Lucia Bellini > Lucia, I have recently been introduced to Brause nibs, which are quite stiff and lend themselves to nice, clean lines. It sounds like your problem is the nibs--Higgins is generally a good, flowing ink. Sumi has lacquer in it to make it waterproof, so if you lay it on too thickly it will be shiny. Are you dipping the pen directly in the ink? If so, that could explain the excess of ink. Try literally painting the ink onto the nib so that it gathers in the well rather than at the tip of the nib. And always clean your nibs when you're done! Sometimes dried ink partially reconstitutes itself when you put fresh ink on top of it, and gets messy. Hope that helps, Arianwen ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #31 ****************************