From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V2 #1 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, May 14 1998 Volume 02 : Number 001 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Rubrication?? [scribes]: Burnishing rips gold RE: [scribes]: Burnishing tools (was: Rubrication?? Re: [scribes]: Several Questions. . . Re: [scribes]: Re: Discoveries in San Diego Re: [scribes]: Teaching Calligraphy [scribes]: ADMINISTRATRIVIA [scribes]: Re: Discoveries in San Diego Re: [scribes]: Burnishing tools (was: Rubrication?? Re: [scribes]: questions,questions Re: [scribes]: Teaching Calligraphy Re: [scribes]: Re: Burnishing tools Re: [scribes]: Burnishing tools (was: Rubrication?? Re: [scribes]: Teaching Calligraphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:25:32 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Rubrication?? RwByAGUAZQB0AGkAbgBnAHMAIAB0AG8AIABPAG4AZQAgAGEAbgBkACAAQQBsAGwADQAKAA0ACgBM AGEAZAB5ACAAQQB2AGUAbABpAG4AYQAgAEsAZQB5AGUAcwAgAGEAcwBrAGUAZAAgAGEAYgBvAHUA dAAgAFIAdQBiAHIAaQBjAGEAdABpAG8AbgAuACAAIABUAGgAZQAgAHcAbwByAGQAIABpAHQAcwBl AGwAZgAgAGkAcwAgAGQAZQByAGkAdgBlAGQAIABmAHIAbwBtACAAdABoAGUAIABMAGEAdABpAG4A IAByAG8AbwB0ACAAIgByAHUAYgBlAHIAIgAsACAAbQBlAGEAbgBpAG4AZwAgAHIAZQBkACwAIABz AG8AIAByAHUAYgByAGkAYwBhAHQAaQBvAG4AIABpAHMAIABhAG4AeQAgAHAAZQBuAG4AZQBkACAA dwBvAHIAawAgAHQAaABhAHQAIAB1AHMAZQBzACAAcgBlAGQALgAgACAAUgBlAGQALQBsAGUAdAB0 AGUAcgAgAEIAaQBiAGwAZQBzACAAbQBhAHkAIABzAGUAZQBtACAAdABvACAAYgBlACAAYQBuACAA aQBuAHQAZQByAGUAcwB0AGkAbgBnACAAbQBvAGQAZQByAG4AIABwAGgAZQBuAG8AbQBlAG4AbwBu ACwAIABiAHUAdAAgAHQAaABlACAAcAByAGEAYwB0AGkAYwBlACAAYQBjAHQAdQBhAGwAbAB5ACAA aABhAHIAawBlAG4AcwAgAGIAYQBjAGsAIAB0AG8AIAAqAHIAZQBhAGwAbAB5ACoAIABhAG4AYwBp AGUAbgB0ACAAdABpAG0AZQBzACAAdwBoAGUAcgBlACAAcgBlAGQAIAB3AGEAcwAgAHUAcwBlAGQA IAB0AG8AIABoAGkAZwBoAGwAaQBnAGgAdAAgAHQAZQB4AHQALAAgAGUAaQB0AGgAZQByACAAaQBu ACAAYwBhAHAAaQB0AGEAbABzACAAbwByACAAdwBoAG8AbABlACAAcABhAHIAYQBnAHIAYQBwAGgA cwAuACAAIABUAGgAZQAgAGUAYQByAGwAaQBlAHMAdAAgAHUAcwBlACAAbwBmACAAaQB0ACAAdABo AGEAdAAgAEkAJwB2AGUAIABzAGUAZQBuACAAbQBlAG4AdABpAG8AbgBlAGQAIAB3AGEAcwAgAGkA bgAgAHQAaABlACAAIgBCAG8AbwBrACAAbwBmACAAdABoAGUAIABEAGUAYQBkACIALAAgAGMALgAg ADEANQAwADAAIABCAEMARQAuACAAIABNAG8AZABlAHIAbgBsAHkALAAgAHIAdQBiAHIAaQBjAHMA IABjAGEAbgAgAGEAbABzAG8AIABpAG4AYwBsAHUAZABlACAASQB0AGEAbABpAGMAIABvAHIAIABC AG8AbABkACAAZgBhAGMAZQAgAHQAZQB4AHQALAAgAGEAbgBkACAAdABoAGUAIAB0AGUAcgBtACAA aQBzACAAdQBzAGUAZAAgAHQAbwAgAG0AZQBhAG4AIABhAG4AeQAgAGMAaABhAG4AZwBlACAAaQBu ACAAdAB5AHAAZQAtAGYAYQBjAGUAIABkAGUAcwBpAGcAbgBlAGQAIAB0AG8AIABtAGEAawBlACAA YQAgAGwAZQB0AHQAZQByACAAbwByACAAcwBlAGMAdABpAG8AbgAgAG8AZgAgAHQAZQB4AHQAIABz AHQAYQBuAGQAIABvAHUAdAAuACAAIABCAGUAYwBhAHUAcwBlACAAbwBmACAAdABoAGkAcwAsACAA dABoAGUAIAB0AGUAcgBtACAAcgB1AGIAcgBpAGMAYQB0AGkAbwBuACAAYwBhAG4AIABhAGwAcwBv ACAAYQBwAHAAbAB5ACAAdABvACAAdABoAGUAIABsAG8AdgBlAGwAeQAgAGIAbAB1AGUAIABjAGEA cABpAHQAYQBsAHMAIABzAGMAYQB0AHQAZQByAGUAZAAgAHQAaAByAG8AdQBnAGgAbwB1AHQAIABt AGUAZABpAGUAdgBhAGwAIABtAGEAbgB1AHMAYwByAGkAcAB0AHMALgAgACAAUwBvACwAIAByAHUA YgByAGkAYwAgAG8AbgAhAA0ACgAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAt AC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0A LQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQAtAC0ALQANAAoARABv AHUAZwBsAGEAcwAgAEIAcgBvAHcAbgBlAGwAbAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgAEEASwBBACAAIAAgACAA IABUAGgAbwBtAGEAcwAgAEIAcgBvAHcAbgB3AGUAbABsACwAIABDAGEAbABsAGkAZwByAGEAcABo AGUAcgAsAA0ACgBiAHIAbwB3AG4AdwBlAGwAbABAAGgAbwBtAGUALgBjAG8AbQAgACAAIAAgACAA IAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgAEQAYQBuAGMAZQByACwAUwBpAGwAdgBlAHIAcwBtAGkAdABoACwAUwBp AG4AZwBlAHIALABDAG8AYgBiAGwAZQByACwALgAuAC4ADQAKAFMAYQBuACAARABpAGUAZwBvACwA IABDAEEAIAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgACAAIAAgACAAIABC AGEAcgBvAG4AeQAgAG8AZgAgAEMAYQBsAGEAZgBpAGEALAAgAEMAYQBpAGQADQAKAFQAaABlACAA NAAgAGUAbABlAG0AZQBuAHQAcwAgAD0AIABnAG8AbwBkACAAcABoAHkAcwBpAGMAcwAgAHMAdAB1 AGYAZgA6ADoAIABPAHIALABhACAAZgBvAHUAbgB0AGEAaQBuACwAIABhACAAYwBoAGkAZQBmACAA cgBhAHkAbwBuAG4AeQAgAGcAdQBsAGUAcwAuAA0ACgBHAG8AdQB0AHQAZQAgAGUAbgBvAHUAZwBo ACAAaABlAHIAYQBsAGQAOgA6ACAAKABGAGkAZQBsAGQAbABlAHMAcwApACAAQQAgAGcAbwB1AHQA dABlACAAYgBhAHIAcgB5ACAAdwBhAHYAeQAgAGEAegB1AHIAZQAgAGEAbgBkACAAYQByAGcAZQBu AHQALgANAAoA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:31:41 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: [scribes]: Burnishing rips gold What gilding recipe are you using? The two frequent reasons for tearing through the gold are: 1) Ingredients not ground all the way smooth, and 2) the gold was burnished before it dried. In this second one, the gesso can be soft because there is too much sweetener (preventing it from drying), or because the moistening of brushed on water made it really wet (you should moisten by breath), or because the gesso just didn't set drying for long enough(rainy days?). Ranthulfr > >Yup. I always burnish with glassine. I 've tried to burnish with out it >but I always rip the gold. I tried using a different type of burnisher. >It wasn't metal. > >Yours, >Avelina Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:31:42 -0400 (EDT) From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: RE: [scribes]: Burnishing tools (was: Rubrication?? >I'm sorry. I had too much blood in my caffeine stream when I wrote the >other note and sent it. I meant to say that I have tried burnishers made >of matierials other than metal and still ripped the gold. I do use patent >gold rather than loose gold, which is why I may have these problems. I >will be trying loose gold soon. We are going to order some from easy >leaf. (woohoo) > >Avelina To the best of my knowlege, loose leaf gold and patent gold are exactly the same thing except that one has a paper backing so you can cut and place it without a gilder's brush and a gilder's pad. Maybe the difference in effect you are getting is in either the thickness of the brand or the purity of the Karat. Ranthulfr Asparlundr Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 (734) 663-0954 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:40:44 -0700 From: Curtis Edenfield&Mary Hysong Subject: Re: [scribes]: Several Questions. . . Dyan Boven wrote: > I'm just done reading my Paper & Ink Catalogue, and in it they have "The Painted Page: Italian Renaissance Book Illumination 1450-1550)" I think that's the one Tetchubah is referencing. It's listed price is $75.00. It does say it's 274 pages with 215 illus. of which 198 in full color, so that would be helpful. Hope this helps out. Wonderful book full of color pics, especially if Italian Ren. is your time period, also gets into the first printed books {Did you realize the printers made deluxe editions, printed on velum with hand done Ill. & gold lear!?} Anyway, check Amazon.com for a better price. Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:48:30 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Discoveries in San Diego Hi there. I contacted the event coordinator for the Discoveries event in San Diego about visiting the event without attending all of the lectures, and this is the reply I got from Donna Young >>>>> Greetings Doug, Thanks for your email, and for your interest in Discoveries! The San Diego area public is invited to attend all the conference events. Only workshops require preregistration. There is no fee to visit the exhibits, commercial trade show, Scribe Store, or the art supply and bookstore vendors. Lectures are also open to the public at a cost of $5/lecture. If you would like to attend the workshops as a commuter, the fee is $595 for the week—lunch included. I hope you will be able to join us for the conference, in whatever capacity works best for your situation. Regards, Donna Young >>>>> Hope this helps. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:52:55 -0700 From: Curtis Edenfield&Mary Hysong Subject: Re: [scribes]: Teaching Calligraphy Jan McEwen wrote: > What is the best way to teach absolute beginners how to calligraph? When > I wanted to learn, I was referred to Drogin, told to pick a hand, and copy > it. [snipped] :-) That's the basic way I've learned. Tho I started with the little Speedball book and only later discovered period hands. Once you are comfortable with working with the pen it does not take long at all to learn others. When learning a new one I usually just write out the alphabet a few times to get the hang of the different letter, then write out a scroll text a few times, until I don't have to look at the exemplar except for an occasional odd letter. Then do a few promisories. Usually by the end of a week it looks like I've been doing it forever. My problem these days is I have carpel tunnel *twinges* {occasional pain in that area if I over do} and also have other nerve damage in neck, shoulder and elbow, so any hand requiring a lot of pen twisting is out, it becomes too painfull to practice long enough to become proficient. > I really did want to learn, so I pushed myself and actually became good at > Carolingian miniscule (but I need to learn other hands). If I apply this > method of learning to some of our populace, I'll lose them. Is there a > technique of teaching calligraphy that makes it seem less overwhelming? Master Daniel filz Aarron, teaches calligraphy classes using this technique: He gets 3-4 mm wide felt tip callig. markers and hands out 1) an exemplar 2) practice sheets 3) blank ruled sheets. The practice sheets are large skeleton letters with arrows for the pen strokes {kinda like 3rd grade penmanship!} Students follow the lines to get the hang of the strokes and their order, then using the ruled sheets and exemplar can strike out on their own. This works pretty well. I agree about the versals! Mine never looked quite right in the larger drawn and painted sizes until I watched Master Daniel draw a couple, then I knew exactly what I had been doing wrong and made an immediate improvement. Mairi, Atenveldt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:09:35 -0700 From: Lee Damon Subject: [scribes]: ADMINISTRATRIVIA While I was out of town (of course), the config file that determines volume and issue number got stuck. I've removed the bad file and *think* I've changed over to volume 2, issue 1 starting now. I hope. nomad - ------------ - Lee "nomad" Damon - \ play: nomad@castle.org or castle!nomad \ work: nomad@qualcomm.com \ http://people.qualcomm.com/nomad/ /\ Seneschal, Castle PAUS. / \ "Celebrate Diversity" / \ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:22:25 -0700 From: Holly Sullivan Subject: [scribes]: Re: Discoveries in San Diego Thank you kindly for posting that. At $595/week, they ought to be serving prime rib all week.. But only $5 for the lectures?! Cool! Something tells me I know where my paycheck is going that month. The vendors are gonna love me. ;-) Thomas Brownwell wrote: > > Hi there. I contacted the event coordinator for the Discoveries event in San > Diego about visiting the event without attending all of the lectures, and this > is the reply I got from Donna Young > >>>>> > Thanks for your email, and for your interest in Discoveries! > The San Diego area public is invited to attend all the conference > events. Only workshops require preregistration. There is no fee > to visit the exhibits, commercial trade show, Scribe Store, or the > art supply and bookstore vendors. Lectures are also open to the > public at a cost of $5/lecture. > If you would like to attend the workshops as a commuter, the fee > is $595 for the week—lunch included. - -- :-)---Holly---<--<-@ * ICQ 4316762 * FidoNet 1:202/720 * hollys@geocities.com San Diego Quilting Resources at http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/4201 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:12:37 -0400 From: morgandev@juno.com (Steven J Proctor) Subject: Re: [scribes]: Burnishing tools (was: Rubrication?? Actually, Patent leaf, from my experience, will NOT burnish up as well as loose leaf. I used the petent for a while (Wonderful stuff for the convienience end of the job, and it lets you work wiith the windows open!) but I never got a good shine off of it. The loose leaf polishes up much nicer. Morgan On Wed, 13 May 1998 19:31:42 -0400 (EDT) randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) writes: >>I'm sorry. I had too much blood in my caffeine stream when I wrote >>the other note and sent it. I meant to say that I have tried burnishers >>made of matierials other than metal and still ripped the gold. I do use >>patent gold rather than loose gold, which is why I may have these problems. >>I will be trying loose gold soon. We are going to order some from easy >>leaf. (woohoo) >> >>Avelina > >To the best of my knowlege, loose leaf gold and patent gold are >exactly the same thing except that one has a paper backing so you can cut and >place it without a gilder's brush and a gilder's pad. Maybe the difference in >effect you are getting is in either the thickness of the brand or the purity >of the Karat. > >Ranthulfr Asparlundr > >Randy Asplund-Faith >2101 S. Circle Dr. >Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 >(734) 663-0954 >http://www.provide.net/~randyaf > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 00:36:44 EDT From: FITCHYBEAR Subject: Re: [scribes]: questions,questions In a message dated 98-05-13 13:40:13 EDT, daffyd@worldpath.net writes: << Also, I noticed an intriguing product in Pearl: the Instacoll gilding system, made by Sepp leaf products. According to the description, it gives a mirror finish without burnishing. I wonder if this would work on paper/parchment or is it just for wood? It's a two step system; there's a size and an "activator". Any thoughts? Chiara da Ravenna >> I've read about this stuff before(brain like a sieve don't remember where) but as i recall, the press wasn't too favorable.............I think it is really a mylar/polymer resin type thingy and I don't think I'd take the chance-JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 01:08:55 -0500 From: Dennis and/or Dory Grace Subject: Re: [scribes]: Teaching Calligraphy At 06:52 PM 5/13/98 -0700, Curtis Edenfield&Mary Hysong wrote: > > >Jan McEwen wrote: > >> What is the best way to teach absolute beginners how to calligraph? When >> I wanted to learn, I was referred to Drogin, told to pick a hand, and copy >> it. When I teach calligraphy, I go in with the intention of sharing every hard-learned trick and tip and technique that I learned over the course of over a decade in as condensed and concise a form as possible. And as flippish as it might sound, start at the beginning. In the beginning, there is a writer and a tool and materials. There are ways to hold the tool, move the tool, think about the tool; ways to handle the material, options regarding material. There are ways for the writer to sit, breath, hold and move parts of their body. OK, not so cryptic, then. I teach with 3mm "dip" pens, quad paper, and exemplars from Marc Drogin's book. I like to use his exemplars because they're done on graph paper, and it's easier for students to see proportional relationships between strokes, negative spaces, and spacing spaces. A 3mm nib combined with a 1/2" (or 2 block/line height in the quad paper) provides an adequate nib-width to minim-stoke height proportion for many historical hands. The small blocks of the quad paper are handy for showing the relationship of the 45 degree angle of a stroke. I use the pens instead of the markers because I believe them to give a superior stroke than a marker; as well, a marker will handle differently than a metal nib, and to go from learning with a marker to learning with a nib requires additional learning/relearning, however slight. Besides, it's not like a nib holder and one 3mm nib is an expensive purchase. In many cases, it's cheaper than the "calligraphy" markers. I teach my students to load the nib resevoir with a dropper or a brush. I spend a great deal of the first class discussing all these things, and talking about *why* we're using the tools and materials we're using and *why* we're doing the things we're doing. I talk about my past experiences that taught *me* these things. I tell my students to practice while sitting with both feet either flat on the floor or, if elevated, stable and at the same height. This is for stability and balance. I remind them to think about proper posture so as not to over-fatigue themselves. I tell them to write with most or all of their forearm resting on the table for stability, and to move thier whole arm when making long ascender strokes for the same reason. I talk about the "zen" of calligraphy, about breathing out on the down stroke and compare that as a stabilizing excercise to such things as squeezing the trigger of a gun or shooting an arrow or performing an martial arts technique. I talk about pulling the nib as opposed to pushing it, about how to hold the pen so that it rests between the knuckle and middle joint of the index finger instead of in the crook of the thumb. (Always expect exceptions to rules, and use them as learning experiences for yourself.) I talk a little about how calligraphy morphed and modified over the period of time from the fall of the Roman empire to the Renaissance, and some of the societal and cultural forces that guided it to do so. Then I figure we can break out the ink and play. I usually advise my students that most alphabets are based on the shape of the "o" and the stokes, nib angle, etc, that it takes to make that "o." So after practicing some zig-zag lines to get the hang of the tool and see what it feels like to hold a chisel-edge nib flat to a surface (you gotta remember that most folk have only written with pointed pens/pencils all their lives until now--it's a totally different experience/feeling, and one that we as scribes tend to forget sometimes), we practice o's. I bring a variety of books to class for eye-candy more than anything else. I think you'll find that most folk are content with hand-outs to begin with, and then when they're more into it they'll be interested in book recommendations. Make up a short bibliography, including publishers and ISBN's, of the books you bring to class, as a hand-out. Talk about the pro's and cons of each one and talk about why your favorite book is your favorite book. I've also had a lot of luck (as well as fun) anthropomorphizing whatever style I'm teaching. It can help to draw correlations regarding techniques that some people find easier to bite into and digest than plain, dry technical info sometimes. (For example, I ask who's been pregnant or has fat cats and tell them to think about that while making uncial o's. That usually draws a few chuckles, and helps folk loosen up and get into the "feel" of the strokes they're looking for.) This might be a little more in-depth than you were looking for, and if so, I apologize for taking up the extra bandwidth. But boy, talk about a wide-open question! Aquilanne Dory Grace--The Inkwell denouncer of Tytyvylus & warrior crone Austin, Texas mailto:amazing@mail.utexas.edu http://www.angelfire.com/biz/aquilanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:15:19 +1000 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Burnishing tools RenScribe wrote: > > In a message dated 5/13/98 7:45:04 AM, Deanna.Knott@GSC.GTE.Com wrote: > > >I'm sorry. I had too much blood in my caffeine stream when I wrote the other > note > >and sent it. I meant to say that I have tried burnishers made of matierials > other > >than metal and still ripped the gold. I do use patent gold rather than loose > gold, > >which is why I may have these problems. I will be trying loose gold soon. > We > >are going to order some from easy leaf. (woohoo) > > > >Avelina > > I have many kinds of burnishers. Some of them I use with glassine, some I > don't. I always test on a small area before I decide to burnish with anything. > > Sometimes my good agate burnisher will work, sometimes it won't. That's when I > start going through the scribe box looking for the others....a couple of other > agates, a hematite, a bone folder and at times when those won't bring up the > high luster I want, I've used the bottom of a test tube. > > Most of the time, one of my burnishers will work better than the others. Just > when I get in the rhythm of using any particular one routinely, I'll sit down > to work on a piece and the burnisher won't work. Has anyone else had this > happen? I can't seem to tie this to any environmental factor. The same > burnisher will work on a piece one day, but not the next, so I doubt it's the > gesso. I keep my burnishers clean and wipe them with silk if the gold starts > sticking to them. Any ideas? Or do my burnishers just have a mind of their > own? ;-) > > Eibhlin ni Chaoimh > AEthelmearc Hi, I find that my haemitite burnishers (polished pebbles from the New Age shop) are picking up something from the paper/gold and need to be cleaned. I use "transfer leaf", but 22ct and so far I only do flat gold. It can be subtle. as ever {thorn}orfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:33:12 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Burnishing tools (was: Rubrication?? Salutations unto the most noble scribes in the Known World Ranthulfr wrote: "To the best of my knowlege, loose leaf gold and patent gold are exactly the same thing except that one has a paper backing so you can cut and place it without a gilder's brush and a gilder's pad. Maybe the difference in effect you are getting is in either the thickness of the brand or the purity of the Karat." I quote: Rose Fulsom, "The Calligrapher's Dictionary" -- "Transfer Gold: gold leaf that adheres by pressure to a sheet of tissue paper... is considered to give an inferior surface to loose leaf gold." (page 122) Donald Jackson, "The Calligrapher's Handbook, 2nd ed." -- " To apply gold you can use single-thickness transferred gold (patent gold). A marginally brighter finish can be achieved by substituting double-thickness transferred gold or by using loose gold leaf..." (page 182) I'm sure I've read basically the same thing in several other sources, though a quick perusal of my library failed to produce anything. Basically, you get a shinier surface from loose gold because it's thicker than patent or transfer gold. The thicker the gold, the easier it is to handle loose. Daniel Thompson, "Materials of Medieval Painting" -- "...in [Ceninno's] day [they] used to beat 145 leaves out of a ducat. ...this gold leaf weighed 0.37 grain per leaf, or therabouts. Cennino says that this is too thin for general purposes, that they ought not to beat over 100 leaves out of a ducat, which would make the weight of a single leaf 0.54 grain (if there were no waste). An average modern gold leaf weighs about 0.20 troy grain, and a double weight gold leaf about 0.40. Presumably, therefore, Cennino's best gold was about comparable with the heaviest modern double-weight gold leaf... But all we really know is that medieval gold leaf was on the whole somewhat heavier than the ordinary modern commercial product." (pages 195-6) Daniel Thompson alludes to this again later in his article, noting the fact that modern gilders really have to use a gilding tip (a brush with squirrel hair bristles) to lift the gold and place it, while medieval gilders only needed to use a little "shovel" made of card or parchment, as their gold was heavier and easier to handle without it flying all over the place. (page 220) Note that even Cennino couldn't get gold thick enough, that the readily available cheap leaf was about the same thickness as our Double leaf. Anyway, try to buy double-thickness gold, as it is closest to the medieval weight and will produce a surface that is closer in appearance to that of the medieval craftsman's work. And use the loose gold, as its surface burnishes up brighter. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:59:00 -0700 From: "Thomas Brownwell" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Teaching Calligraphy Greetings unto the List. I apologize for this belated reply on the subject of teaching beginning calligraphy. I suspect that most, though certainly not all, of the scribes in attendance learned the hard way, all by themselves with hours of pouring over Drogin or Childs, etc., puzzling over how in the world *that* scribe did *this* darned letter. So it's hard to say from personal experience what the beginning scribe should be shown/taught. I like the suggestions of a photocopied template that one simply pens over, stroke by stroke. But for most beginning scribes the trouble lies not in how to shape the letters (most of us have a steady-enough hand from everyday writing). Instead, for me at least, it was getting the pen itself to write, learning at what angle to hold it so that the nib would always stay in contact with the surface. For example, show the class what happens when one corner of the pen comes up off the page, or what the differing pen angles do to the line shapes, both ends and middles, then work one-on-one with the students, pointing out the good parts of their pen-handling and offering useful suggestions when you see an error. They always seem to blossom when you gently rotate their pen or hand and suddenly the words flow right onto the paper (still squiggly, but at least readable!). The students can always find a plethora of books on how the letters are shaped. They just need a little supervision on the more basic mechanics of medieval writing. I prefer teaching the advanced hands myself, yet indeed I do enjoy those Pen 101 classes now & then. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Brownell AKA Thomas Brownwell, Calligrapher, brownwell@home.com Dancer,Silversmith,Singer,Cobbler,... San Diego, CA Barony of Calafia, Caid The 4 elements = good physics stuff:: Or,a fountain, a chief rayonny gules. Goutte enough herald:: (Fieldless) A goutte barry wavy azure and argent. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V2 #1 ***************************