From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #93 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, February 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 093 In this issue: [scribes]: Re: defining terms [scribes]: Speaking of bole.... [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) Re: [scribes]: defining terms Re: [scribes]: Re: defining terms Re: [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) Re: [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) [scribes]: Re: Gum Ammoniac Re: [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) [scribes]: Re: Gum Ammoniac Re: [scribes]: Re: Gum Ammoniac ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:13:17 EST From: RenScribe Subject: [scribes]: Re: defining terms In a message dated 2/27/98 10:21:41 AM, ab873@jepms4.jep.cummins.com wrote: >These may be silly questions, but I may not be the only person on >this list who is just getting into raised guilding and has >never heard of some of these terms. What are: > >bole > >glair > >"slaked" plaster > > >Are these items I can purchase somewhere or make myself? What >kind of place would I go to purchase them or the raw materials? > > >Thanks!!! > > >DOrinda Courtenay Good question To those who are lost......Sorry :-( Bole- Is a type of red clay sometimes called jeweler's rouge. Prior to the late 12th century, bole was mixed with gelatin or glair (wait for it...) as a ground for applying gold leaf. It makes a red toned base that brings out the full color of the gold. You should be able to purchase this the same place you would any dry pigment. Glair-The white of an egg prepared and used as a binder or size (glue) for holding pigments together in paint form. (There's really not much preparation involved.) This makes a very brittle binder. <> The yolk of the egg can be used as a binder too (egg tempera) and is remarkable to use. I often compare the difference between using gum arabic and egg tempera to the difference between using watercolor paper and vellum. One is flat and dull while the other has a depth. Slaked plaster- This is a chalk used to add the bulk in a gesso. It replaced bole around the 14th century. You can buy it prepared and ready to use from places that sell gilding supplies or make it yourself from plaster of Paris. ************************** A book I use a lot for reference is _The Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting_ by Daniel V. Thompson... ISBN 0-486-20327-1... Dover Publications ...$6.95 US Hope this helps... If I loose you again, just hit me with a clue x 4 :-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc Butler PA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:07:03 -0800 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: [scribes]: Speaking of bole.... I'd like to get some dry bole (I have premixed in a liquid) but I've been hesitating getting it from my usual supplier (Easy Leaf) because if I recall correctly the quantity they sell it in is, shall we say, somewhat LARGE for an illumination project. But it's dirt cheap (which is good since it's essentially dirt anyway). If I ordered some would anyone, particularly here in Caid where it could be easily transferred, be interested in buying some of the extra cones off me? Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:17:43 -0400 From: Knott Deanna Subject: [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) Unto my Scribal Cousins, greetings! OK, I have some *more* questions. My Lord bought this book from Borders = Book store. I can not remember the name of it now to save my life. It's = black. It's shiny. It's new (within the last year or 2). It shows you ho= w to do illuminated manuscripts step-by-step. They mention this 'stuff' = called gum ammoniac. They say to soak it in water overnight and stir it = up and strain it through nylons. I have been to our local art store = (which is near RISD) and they have never heard of it. I looked through = the easy leaf stuuf and they didn't have it. Then I found Sinopia (wow! = what a cool place!!), and they didn't have it. I am just interested in = playing with period *size* as opposed to gesso. Second question: is there really a digest for this list?? If there is = can someone send me the subscription info? Although I was surprised that = the traffic on this list went down after I unsubscribed and rejoined. Third: some one on this list mentioned Ox Gall one time. I used it when = I thinned out some gouche to load up my pen to write a name on a scroll I = did. It came out much nicer than when I thinned out the red and didn't = have it. What is Ox Gall (ever get the feeling the you are in for an = unpleasant surprise??)? Does anyone know what it does to the paint? (if = that doesn't make sense, e-mail me and I will try to explain) I mean, = what does it do to make the paint behave so nicely? Thanks!! Avelina Keyes East Kingdom deanna.knott@gsc.gte.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:15:37 EST From: PTS21 Subject: Re: [scribes]: defining terms In a message dated 98-02-27 10:21:41 EST, ab873@jepms4.jep.cummins.com writes: << These may be silly questions>> There are no silly questions, just silly people {like ME!! :-) } <> Often called Armenian bole, The Craftsman's Handbook by Cennino d'Andrea Cennini refers to it in a translator's footnote as a "coloring matter (that) makes it easier to see the effect of the work as it progresses. The modern trade equivalent...is "Gilder's Red Clay..." In effect it is a coloring agent but can also be used as a filling agent. Writing, Illuminating and Lettering by Johnston says "The substance in a 'size' or raising preparation is generally some kind of earthy matter, to give it body--such as chalk, Armenian bole, slaked plaster of Paris". <> Glair is a painting medium made of egg whites which have been beaten until fluffy then allowed to settle, overnight is typical. The scum is discarded, and the remaining liquid is glair and can be used as a binder in dry ground paint pigments, for some types of gilding and Cennini also gives a use for it as varnish over paint. It is one of the types of egg tempera, the other type uses yolks. If you add sugar while you're beating it and then bake it right away, it makes a heck of a topping for Lemon Custard in a pie. For custard, you can add some Cream of Tartar to help it fluff. If you're using it for painting and gilding, don't use Cream of Tartar. <<"slaked" plaster>> Also known as "Gesso Sottile" (regular Plaster is Gesso Grosso), you mix plaster of Paris with water--more than is called for to make a solid plaster and let it "rot for a while"--mine sat a month. Stir it thoroughly every day, and when it has settled, pour off the old water and put in new. According to Cennini, "...every ray of heat goes out of it, and it will become soft as silk." Then you pour off the water and let it dry. It's used as a filler material in a number of different arts, including gilding, and gives a very smooth surface to work on. <> You can purchase all three. I believe. I know the Gabriel Guild carried Armenian Bole and Gesso Sottile, I don't know about the Glair--I doubt it as glair is perishable (it also tends to smell bad fast). Both John Neal Bookseller and Pen and Ink Books sell a prepared gesso tablet that includes white lead--I don't recommend it for houses with toddler's, especially as there are alternatives available, period, and safe. You can also substitute a little red Guache for the Armenian Bole in some recipes for raised leaf, as long as the bole is being used as more of a coloring agent than a filler. I recommend both the Johnston and Cennini books as well as The Encyclopedia of Calligraphic Techniques by Hardy Wilson. Wilson's book doesn't give good recipes but it has a great step by step photo explanation of the actual application of the gold leaf (both raised and flat). For people looking for documentation of artistic practices from manuscripts to fresco to painting cloth to mosaics, Cennini lived, worked, and wrote in 15th century Florence. It's as close as we get to working with the people who did the originals (along with the model books and, of course, their work--LOOK AT ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS--IN PERSON --WHENEVER POSSIBLE!) Hope this helps, Cori Ghora, AEthelmearc deputy Signet Clare Jackson, North Tonawanda, NY (just north of Buffalo--where it's 50 degrees, green, and sunny) pts21@aol.com Thanks!!! DOrinda Courtenay ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-za04.mail.aol.com (rly-za04.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.100]) by air-za01.mail.aol.com (v39.9) with SMTP; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:21:40 1900 Received: from castle.org (cx39592-a.elcjn1.sdca.home.com [24.4.65.87]) by rly-za04.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id KAA05014; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:21:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) id HAA16923 for scribes-list; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:18:30 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: castle.org: majordomo set sender to owner- scribes@castle.org using -f Received: from moat.castle.org (moat.castle.org [129.46.92.29]) by castle.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA16919 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:18:28 -0800 (PST) From: ab873@jepms4.jep.cummins.com Received: from firewall2.cummins.com (firewall-user@fw2.cummins.com [205.230.25.36]) by moat.castle.org (8.8.5/8.8.5.s1) with SMTP id HAA07991 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by firewall2.cummins.com; id KAA14487; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:14:21 - -0500 Received: from unknown(143.222.15.21) by firewall2.cummins.com via smap (3.2) id xma014449; Fri, 27 Feb 98 15:13:41 GMT Received: from jepsv1.jep.cummins.com by ceco1.cummins.com (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) id AA20884; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:16:18 -0500 Received: by jepsv1.jep.cummins.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15460; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:12:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:14:52 -0500 Message-Id: <98022710145214@jepms4.jep.cummins.com> To: scribes@castle.org Subject: [scribes]: defining terms X-Vms-To: @SCRIBES Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:25:50 EST From: PTS21 Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: defining terms In a message dated 98-02-27 11:17:26 EST, RenScribe@aol.com writes: << A book I use a lot for reference is _The Materials and Techniques of Medieval Painting_ by Daniel V. Thompson... ISBN 0-486-20327-1... Dover Publications ...$6.95 US >> Duh--something I missed in my earlier post--The Craftsman's Handbook by Cennini was translated by Daniel Thompson. OH--and also keep in mind that Glair and egg yolk can both make your surface a little shiny. AND some pigments will re-act with yolk and change--I purposely mixed a copper based blue with yolk instead of glair so that over time, the dress the woman on the scroll was wearing would turn green. I believe it's working, but I haven't seen that scroll in a while. Cori Ghora, AEthelmearc deputy Signet Clare Jackson, North Tonawanda, NY (just north of Buffalo) pts21@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:40:54 EST From: PTS21 Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) In a message dated 98-02-27 12:19:53 EST, Deanna.Knott@GSC.GTE.Com writes: << gum ammoniac. They say to soak it in water overnight and stir it up and strain it through nylons. I have been to our local art store (which is near RISD) and they have never heard of it. >> Pen and Ink books (800) PEN-7772 and John Neal Bookseller (800)369-9598 It runs $3-$4 and oz, it doesn't take alot to mix up a batch from the crystals, it works beter if you strain it a number of times, and it smells BAD << Second question: is there really a digest for this list?? >> I don't know <> Yes, I'm sorry, it is from cow. I'm not sure exactly which liquid it is but it is definitely bovine. <> I don't know for sure but I suspect that it has a bit of liquid fat in it that smooths out the consistency of the paint--much the same way as ear wax smooths it out and stops it from bubbling without thinning the paint the way the ox gall does. Anyone with better info on the chemical reactions out there? Cori Ghora, AEthelmearc deputy Signet Clare Jackson, North Tonawanda (just north of Buffalo) pts21@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:18:07 -0800 From: "Carolyn Richardson" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) << <>>> <> If I remember my old biology classes, gall (the liquid kind) comes from the gall bladder. It's secreted into the stomach/intestines (I don't recall which) to aid in digestion. At least that's the way I recall it working in humans - cows may vary some but I doubt by much. I have a bottle I bought at an art store from Windsor Newton - about 3 ounces worth which I've hardly touched at all in 2 years as you don't need much. Guess that means I have a lot of gall, huh? Tetchubah of Greenlake Kingdom of Caid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:10:46 -0500 From: ab873@jepms4.jep.cummins.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: Gum Ammoniac Regarding gum ammoniac: Just in case no one else mentions it, this stuff gets pretty nasty, so don't let it soak in something you care about or pour it into something you care about (like your good tupperware). An old babyfood jar is perfect - if it gets too nasty you just throw it away. I have found it tough to strain through nylons without making a mess, so I put on a surgical glove, squeeze the stuff out, and then flip the glove inside out and throw the whole mess away. Does anyone else have any words on how long the stuff lasts? I have kept it around for a long time, scraped the mold off the top and used it quite a while after I originally made it, but it does seem to lose its effectiveness after a while. Dorinda Courtenay (Dorinda Courtine-White) Shire of Heronter, AEthelmearc (Jamestown, NY) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:21:22 -0600 From: Jen Rosen Subject: Re: [scribes]: Gum Ammoniac (among other things...) Re: oxgall-- I believe it is a surfactant, that is, it reduces surface tension so things flow easier. ________________ Lady Gianetta Andreini da Vicenza Jen Rosen jrosen@zwell.com Per fess gules and azure fretty, in chief in fess three popinjays Or "Oblectatio praesens non satis celeris est." (Instant gratification is just not fast enough.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:59:48 EST From: RenScribe Subject: [scribes]: Re: Gum Ammoniac In a message dated 2/27/98 1:18:37 PM, ab873@jepms4.jep.cummins.com wrote: >Does anyone else have any words on how long the stuff lasts? >I have kept it around for a long time, scraped the mold off the >top and used it quite a while after I originally made it, but it >does seem to lose its effectiveness after a while. > >Dorinda Courtenay I keep mine in an old shot glass and let it dry out rather than try to keep it covered. I wait till it's not runny anymore, then just throw it in a box of gilding supplies or my scribal box. Sometimes it gets dusty, I just blow it out before I reconstitute it. I have never had mold grow on it. It's one of those things I use a lot on the spur of the moment, so I like having it ready to use. It's over a year old and is still working just fine....although it does look like I'll have to make some more soon. Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc Butler PA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:05:30 -0500 From: Helen Schultz Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: Gum Ammoniac ab873@jepms4.jep.cummins.com wrote: > Regarding gum ammoniac: > > Does anyone else have any words on how long the stuff lasts? > I have kept it around for a long time, scraped the mold off the > top and used it quite a while after I originally made it, but it > does seem to lose its effectiveness after a while. > > Dorinda Courtenay > (Dorinda Courtine-White) > > Shire of Heronter, AEthelmearc > (Jamestown, NY) I don't know how long it lasts either, but I was told to warm it up before use. My mundane instructor had us store it in old film canisters, then told us to take the top off and put it in the microwave for a few seconds to warm it. I have some from four years ago, but haven't attempted to use it (no particular reason). Meisterin Katarina Helene ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #93 ****************************