From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #64 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Tuesday, February 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 064 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: How (and when) to critique? Re: [scribes]: Field trips - do it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:30:08 -0500 From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: How (and when) to critique? >Hello all, > >How do you give critique? > >How do you know when it's needed or desired? >(Or when to keep your mouth shut! ) > >Someone said something on this list about teaching a scribe to be objective >about their own work - how do you do that? > >Any and all help would be appreciated. > >Yours, >Genevieve d'Evreux Dear scribes and Lady Genevieve, Giving critique is one of the more difficult and yet more important things we can do for each other. Critique should be part of the learning process. However, it is often by its nature used for bolstering ego rather than leaning. I don't just mean the ego of the receiver either. It is often done by a well-meaning would-be teacher who doesn't recognize his/her own need to feel better about their own abilities. Here is my advice. Take from it what you will: When someone comes to you asking for critique, don't just take their word for it that they really are seeking help. Talk to them a bit first. This will help you figure out several things. You will know more about what they are after. If they are just fishing for compliments it will become obvious. If they really want to learn from you, find out what they are interested in working on. If you comment on the daiper patterns and they are interested in making figures look better, they probably will only listen with half an ear anyway. If you talk about what you know about figures as a collegue they will respect your ideas, whether they agree or not. I presume that all work, no matter who made it or what it is, will not be perfect. Art is subjective, and as such, what is "good" for one person is crap for someone else. Therefore, it is not a positive thing to consider any artist's work as crap. When you look at something and you don't see what is wrong with it, I guarrantee that there is someone out there who can pick it apart. When you look at someone's work and see lots of mistakes, great, consider those to be items to choose from when deciding what critique to give. They are opportunities for learning. Find out from the artist WHICH, if ANY of them they are interested in improving. Give advice which you feel sure of. If you are guessing, tell them. You may be mistaken. Your credibility is on the line. Also, remember that they do not have to do the work as well as you to be "good". To be "good" their work only needs to be as good or better than they are currently already doing. Remember, "good" is a term on a sliding scale. The best advice is positive advice. Your student will learn more and appreciate it more when you say "I think you can make this even more authentic if you use these colors" rather than: "Your work doesn't look as medieval as it could because you used those colors instead of these." When I am done chatting with someone who wants a critique and am ready to start, the first thing I do is ask a question. "So, What are you interested in learning to improve?" I often follow-up by asking what parts THEY are happy with and what parts THEY are not happy with. When I agree with them, even if it is a criticism, it is ok, because they said it first. I compliment them on having spotted it. If there is something they don't like and I say it looks fine, they are happy. By finding out what the student wants to improve, you capture their attention and are MUCH less likely to bruise the ego. Plus, they are more likely to apply that lesson. If you critique about things which they are not interested in hearing, you will risk putting them off, and you are wasting your breath because they want to work on something else. As for being objective about one's own work,there are a few things an artist needs to be aware of. It is easier to be objective about specifics than it is about all of it at once. Focus them on as specific an element as possible. Then have them compare specific traits to medieval examples which you provide. Ask THEM to spot the differences. As they learn to analyze their work in comparison to real examples, they will stop thinking as much in terms of "HOW GOOD IS IT?" and start thinking more in terms of "HOW DID THEY DO THAT?" The more specific elements which they learn about, the better their overall pieces will be because they will strive to emulate them. This goes for technique as well as for design. If you teach them to ask more questions about "How was that made? What was it made with?" and "What is that all about?" Then they will start thinking about what they are making and how it compares with what they are learning about. Self evaluation is all about comparing to your goals and the models set before you. Thats my two gilders worth, Rathulfr Asparlundr, OL KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:24:41 +1100 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: Field trips - do it Lisa Loftin wrote: > > Greeting to the list! > > This past weekend, our local scribes group took a field trip to the Athenaeum, a > small Catholic college and seminary in Cincinnati. There, we had the opportunity > to look at and handle (yikes!) actual, honest-to-God medieval books! The collection > is small, only a dozen or so volumes, ranging from a 12th century "Sentences of Thomas > Somebodyorother" to a 16th century gradual. I was amazed at how thin, almost transluscent, > real vellum is, yet so strong! And I never appreciated how small so many of these > things actually are, despite the fact that measurements are usually listed in books > of reprints. > > I would encourage any scribes out there who haven't had the opportunity to really > study actual period items to do so. Most librarians welcome the chance to share > them with folks who truly appreciate the time and effort that went into making them > so many centuries ago. I suspect that there are a lot of colleges out there, particularly > Catholic or Hebrew institutions, with a few of these stashed away in the archives. > Just a phone call or two and you might be pleasantly surprised at what you may find! I can thoroughly endorse visiting museums and libraries to view the real thing and engaging in conversation with the librarians/curators about the books. In Australia, there are about 100 illustrated manuscripts including a couple of historically significant ones. They have been purchased by benefactors over the last 70 years and then donated. I have probably seen over half of them. Talking to the librarians can get you a lot closer to the book then the display case. I have had the "white cotton gloves" on a couple of rare visits. It is quite inspiring to hold a book and to be able to turn the pages. The State Library here has a dozen or more books and as part of the local Calligraphy Society a session was organised there. One of the books was from the library of Duke Lorenzo de Medici. But, at the Gallery they had a set person do all the handling of the books and we had to watch over her sholder, but to see the "Melbourne Livy" this was greatly worth it, done in Paris about 1410. The books are described in "Medieval and Renaissance Illuminated Manuscripts in Australian Collections, M.M.Manion & V.F.Vines, Thames & Hudson, ISBN 0-500-23381-0, this only describes the illuminated manuscripts although there are other non illustrated ones. As ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #64 ****************************