From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #62 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Monday, February 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 062 In this issue: [scribes]: How (and when) to critique? [scribes]: Re: critique [scribes]: Re: How (and when) to critique? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 05:59:57 -0500 From: Linda Pancrazio Subject: [scribes]: How (and when) to critique? Hello all, How do you give critique? How do you know when it's needed or desired?=20 (Or when to keep your mouth shut! ) Someone said something on this list about teaching a scribe to be objective about their own work - how do you do that? Any and all help would be appreciated. Yours, Genevieve d'Evreux *****************************((****************************************** Linda Pancrazio )) SCA: Lady Genevi=E8ve d'Evreux >>>-------> Selma NC, USA (( -- Elvegast, Windmasters' Hill, Atlantia = =20 lindap@ipass.net )) Azure, on a bend wavy argent between two http://www.ipass.net/~lindap (( butterflies Or three roses purpure. }{ ******************************))****************************************** Windmasters' Hill Scriptorium: http://www.ipass.net/~lindap/whscript.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:42:21 -0600 From: Cindy Baker Subject: [scribes]: Re: critique Lady Genevieve d'Evreux wrote: >How do you give critique? > >How do you know when it's needed or desired? >(Or when to keep your mouth shut! ) That's a very tough question! I usually start by giving a compliment such as "That's a lovely, (nice, interesting, etc.) scroll (border, initial, etc). Do you mind if I ask you how you did (whatever technique)? Once the person starts talking about their work, they will often critique it themselves and bring up areas where they had difficulty (or feel particularly good about) After they have been talking about their work they may feel more comfortable about listening to a simple suggestion or two, such as "Have you tried..." or "When I was working on this problem, I did..." I always try to remember that whatever the skill level of the person I'm talking to, they have volunteered their time and effort and any work they have done is greatly appreciated. I try to remember to thank them for their sharing their time and experiences with me. It's still hard to avoid stepping on toes sometimes :) >Someone said something on this list about teaching a scribe to be objective >about their own work - how do you do that? Another really tough question! I am usually very critical of my own work. Looking at your work with a specific criteria in mind can help: Is my spacing even? Are the letters consistent (is this 'M' at the beginning the same size and shape as the 'M' at the end)? Work on one small problem area at a time. That way you can have many small 'successes' on your way to 'perfecting' a given hand or technique, rather than becoming overly critical and discouraged. Hope this helps a little! Ellen of the Scholars Baile na Scolairi Cindy Baker Bloomington, IL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:09:18 EST From: RenScribe@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Re: How (and when) to critique? If I see someone's work that has a glaring problem, (one that I either have myself, or one I know how to fix) I find a way to talk to them and slip the topic into the conversation. Especially if it's one I *had* and know what a difference it makes when it's corrected. Otherwise I don't give a critique unless I'm asked. I don't have a problem finding good things to say about anyone's work, but it's hard to know just how many bad things they're willing to hear. I had very harsh teachers. They had no problem nit picking on my work. Yes, I learned a lot faster because of the >>>more criticism than actual critique. But I know how I felt when they did that and I REFUSE to pass that on. Another thing I will not do is to criticize someone's work loudly and publicly to others but not mention it to them. That's just bad manners and cruel. The "formula" I was taught was say something good - something constructive - something good. Always end on an up note. But that formula often sounds too textbook. I like to say something good to start with (even an effort is worthy of praise) then I get them to talk about what *they* don't like. The things that are the worst aspects of the piece usually come up. After we've talked a while I like to give one tip that will make the piece better next time. If they ask for more, I give it. Then I remind them of what they did right. I really enjoy the work of novices. Actually I just won an A&S this past weekend and am honored to have received someone's very first scroll. I like to look at novice attempts as a promise of the future rather than pick out the things I would have done differently. I don't mind the mistakes in their work, but am overly critical of my own. My problem is not in giving critiques, but getting them myself. There are a small handful of scribes I know I can show my work to and ask, "How can I get better?" and receive an honest answer. For the most part though, I get all praise and no critique. Hey, I know I'm not *that* good ;-) Eibhlin ni Chaoimh AEthelmearc Butler PA ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #62 ****************************