From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #42 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, February 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 042 In this issue: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff Re: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff Re: [scribes]: ink/paint/gold leaf, vs. ink/gold leaf/paint ? Re: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff Re: [scribes]: ink/paint/gold leaf, vs. ink/gold leaf/paint ? Re: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:48:11 +0000 From: "Laurie Cavanaugh" Subject: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff Inspired by ideas from the 'wide gold borders' posts, I am going to try to do some tempera work over gold, in hopes of replicating the "red glaze" effect in the front half of the Visconti Hours. I read every single word in that book and it says nothing about how it was done - in fact, the author sounded to me like he was glossing over his own ignorance of the technique. Ceninni says nothing about this either. I've never seen this technique anywhere but the Visconti Hours, and there it was only done in red. I was tempted to buy some 'stained glass paint' in red, which I know would give the transparent effect I want, but I think I'll try tempera first. Eggs are cheap. :-) So, all of you knowledgeable pigment people, does the freshness of the eggs before cracking affect the result? If any of you will be at GWW and want to see me get egg all over the place, come to the St. George camp (near Autocrats' camp) early Friday afternoon and we can chat, cut quills, and putter around with projects. I'll be bringing a pretty complete kit plus a portable tilting table for calligraphy. Am I the only one who looks at illuminations of the evangelists and covets the cool swiveling writing tables? Not, I'm sure, what the illuminator had in mind! :-) Morgan Athenry Dreiburgen, Caid Laurie Cavanaugh Young Minds, Inc cavanaug@ymi.com Splendor is worth the effort. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:17:11 EST From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff In a message dated 98-02-06 11:53:41 EST, cavanaug@ymi.com writes: << So, all of you knowledgeable pigment people, does the freshness of the eggs before cracking affect the result?>> In my experimentations, I've not found any difference between fresh or older eggs....however, make sure the egg is at room temperature( and has been for several hours) before using. For one thing it is easier to seperate the egg, and for another, it "handles" better on your brush. Bring your garlic juice too........... <> Are you kidding? that's one of those "when I grow up....or when I win the lottery" things. Although I am intrigued by the pictures of the scribes using the extension arms and desk projecting from their chairs....JimBear ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:39:04 -0500 From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: ink/paint/gold leaf, vs. ink/gold leaf/paint ? >Also, I need a refresher. Which white is best to cover mistakes? I've >been using zinc white to mix, but I think my cat carried off my other tube >of white gouache and I need to replace it. (I'm trying not to think about >where the first tube will turn up.) I really like Titanium white. It is safe to use and it is one of the most opaque whites, period. It is smooth and creamy in binder. If you really want to make it opaque, like any colors, there are two things to do. 1. Paint with as little water in the color as possible. Just enough to flow off the brush-tip. 2. Make your lines smaller without piling the paint on in deep, wet puddles. The longer theaqueous paint is wet on top of other color, the more time the water in the fresh paint can act as a solvent and pull up the color from underneath. > >And finally, I'd appreciate a discussion of sequence in regard to >ink/paint/gold leaf, vs. ink/gold leaf/paint. I did the paint last on my >first few pieces; I'm pretty sure someone told me that was the best plan. >On my last pieces, though, I've switched, since it seemed that the gold was >getting damaged by the handling that occurred during painting. It's also >easier to clean up gold leaf that is a little too far into the painted area >than it is to clean it off the white paper. And you can't paint over the >gold, either. So I guess my question is, if it's better to do the gold >leaf and then the paint, why is it better? > >- Lucia Bellini >- susanla@mindspring.com >------------------------ There are really good reasons for laying the gesso first, laying the gold and burnishing second, and then painting last. First, you should have a good adhesion between your gold and the gesso. If it is rubbing off easily, you may not be gilding correctly. Now, assuming that the gold is adhered well, don't touch it with your hands unless it is brief and your hands are really clean of oils and are completely dry. Your gold is very susceptable to being rubbed off if these moistures are present on your hands. The way around this is to lay a tissue or a soft cloth under your hand when you are working. Which brings us back to why you need good gold adhesion. If the cloth rubs the gold off, so would the pages of a book. I suppose you could also wear a glove, but if you sweat in the glove it will get moist and... When you paint before you gild you are laying down an aqueous medium, either water color, gouache,or glair. When you re-moisten the glue in the gesso before laying gold, you are also re-moistening the glue in the paint. That is why the gold will often stick to the paint. The other reason is that even dry, it is a medium which gold will stick to. On the other hand, gold will rarely stick to parchment or bristol paper surrounding the gesso when you moisten the gesso with breath only. And that is what you should be doing. If you wet the gesso with a brush like ome of us used to do, you are asking for water to seep into the parchment and then the gold often does stick to it. Besides, in traditional gesso, if you wet it with a brush the gesso becomes saturated with water so it becomes soft, which creates cracks in the gold and makes it all too mushy to burnish. It stays mushy inside even after the outer gilded surface is dry, and that means you can't burnish when the surface needs it. When you gild right, the moisture only makes the gesso adhesive. You lay the gold and let it set a bit before burnishing it down hard. Usually the little excess of gold will mostly go away from the parchment during burnishing. Some big pieces will survive and need to be wiped off with a soft brush or knife tip, but they should NOT be adhered to the parchment or paper. If you were to gild over painted areas, you would be burnishing the laid gold right into the paint. Then you would have to scrape both it and your paint job off. Why paint twice? Ranthulfr Asprlundr OL,KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:00:32 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff Morgan Athenry said: <> > > Am I the only one who looks at illuminations of the evangelists and > covets the cool swiveling writing tables? Not, I'm sure, what the > illuminator had in mind! :-) > > Morgan Athenry > Dreiburgen, Caid > No, I, too, dream of these things. The one used on the Labyrinth web page is my dream to someday reconstruct. I question the angles of the two triangles, however. The writing one shown is extremely steep, whereas the one for the book is almost too flat for the scribe to be able to see the pages properly. I had a discussion recently with someone who doubted the connector was like pipes with elbow joints for swiveling. I see it that way!! Sigh, one of these days..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom ~~ Vert, a unicorn head couped close Argent, crinned and armed Or, and in sinister, a gore Or ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:55:42 -0500 From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: ink/paint/gold leaf, vs. ink/gold leaf/paint ? >Good Master Ranthulfr: > >At 02:39 PM 2/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >>There are really good reasons for laying the gesso first, laying the gold >>and burnishing second, and then painting last. First, you should have a >>good adhesion between your gold and the gesso. If it is rubbing off easily, >... + much good advice... > >What gesso recipe do you recommend? > >Until recently I was doing flat gilding with PVA, which gave me good >adhesion, but the burnishing was not great. I just tried a commercial >gesso for my first time w/gesso (Kolner burnishing clay) and it was a >moderate disaster (although I'm sure the recipient won't notice/mind). I >got poor adhesion, to the extent that I had to paint some areas with PVA >after I had gilded, then reapply more gold. Also, in some detail areas, >the gesso flaked off as I was burnishing! > >Thanks for your advice! I'm using period pigments and binders now and >loving it, and I'd like to use period gilding materials as well. > >Yours in service, >Gianetta > > Dear Gianetta, Thats a great question. I'll answer it, but what I will say will be totally alien to most SCA gilders. A lot of people really love using pva. I have very little experience with it. Most "traditional" gilding these days is also very different from what I do. My recipe is based on an anonymous 14th c. Italian treatise written specifically for illuminators called De Arte Illuminandi. The Translation is by Daniel V. Thompson. As far as I know, it is out of print. I got my copy from a library. You want the Thompson version because of the wealth of notes it contains. I would love to write a long letter here to tell you about how to do it, but it would be a really long letter. So instead, I am going to recomment that you request a copy of the Middle Kingdom Scribe's Handbook from our Information Officer. There is an appended article on gilding which I wrote. It has the gilding recipe from De Arte Illuminandi, my explanation of what the author said, a complete list of ingredients and tools, explanations on how to use them, how you can do the process with normal things found in your home, and illustrations. It will get you up and gilding in no time. When we get the handbook onto the internet I plan to update and polish some things. Doubtless, there are some things said in the article which could be revised. But in the meantime, it is a very low cost book and is worth having. FYI the ingredients needed are: * Hide glue (the adhesive) * Armenian bole (needed because it is a soft filler which makes the gesso smooth. White lead is used by other people today, but is not needed if you use all bole. * Bulk former (I use slaked plaster. Some use CaSO4 or chalk). * Clear honey (Some modern recipies use sugar) You can make buttons of gesso up ahead of time, but I don't. I do it all fresh, except that I store pre made glue geletin in the fridge for a long time. Good luck, Ranthulfr Asparlundr OL, KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:55:39 -0500 From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: Tempera and GWW scribestuff >Morgan Athenry said: ><> >> >> Am I the only one who looks at illuminations of the evangelists and >> covets the cool swiveling writing tables? Not, I'm sure, what the >> illuminator had in mind! :-) Those tables are Soooo cool! Yeah, I want one bad. I've been paying a lot of attention to them regarding construction and design layout. The one thing I learned is that there are umpteen different types. Some are only writing desks. Some are just flat tables for illuminating, but every once in a while we find combos. That's what I want! These are a heavy work table at the bottom. It can be a desk if you want, with shelves and cabinets. When you want to work flat you use the table top, but when you want to write you put the writing platform on top of it. The writing platform is a triangular box which often had doors on the ends so you could store things inside. I usually see a narrow flat section for the top (which really makes it a trapazoid). This narrow plane which is horizontal to the table top is about wide enough for the solid oak armiture which plugs into a hole in the top of the writing platform. Then a smaller version of the writing platform -the copystand- is plugged onto the armiture. Books are placed on the copystand and held open with weighted cords. There is another really nifty piece of furniture which I covet for events and demos. It is a large throne-like chair with arms. There is a cabinet under the seat with a door on the side. When the scribe sits down he has a wide, flat board with mounting plugs which slide into the arms of the chair and hold this writing platform over the scribe's lap at the right angle. There are often a couple of holes in the side of the board for holding ink horns. The pen case and knife are often linked by a cord and just drape. Now that's cool! Ranthulfr Asparlundr OL, KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #42 ****************************