From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #34 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Wednesday, February 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 034 In this issue: [scribes]: Re:Paper&parchment Re: [scribes]: ? regarding tech pens Re: [scribes]: ? regarding tech pens ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:44:57 -0500 (EST) From: cav@storm.ca (Rick Cavasin) Subject: [scribes]: Re:Paper&parchment Yo! Master Ranthulfr wrote: >Don't feel guilty about using white paper. I'd even go further than that. Unless the techniques you are practicing specifically require the properties of vellum, I wouldn't even try to use a paper that is made in imitation of parchment/vellum. Paper began to be manufactured in Europe in the 12-13th century. I'd go for a paper that resembles the paper that would have been available at that time (handmade, laid, gelatin sized). Paper has it's own beauty and charm that can be appreciated in it's own right, without trying to make it imitate something it is not. > The later period parchment >makers went through a lot tryin to get their parchment as uniform white and >smooth as possible. As a generalization, that is probably true, but we have to be careful of the selectivity of what has survived. The stuff that tends to survive, and gets reproduced in books is the flashy luxury manuscripts. For these items, the better skins would tend to be selected. There are also technical aspects involved. If you're making a book of hours, it would tend to be small so that it could be portable. Thus, thinner parchment would be needed. Some aspects of producing thinner parchments tends to make it whiter as well. Here we also so regional differences. In Italy, where more goat/kid was used than other animals, you see some of the distinctive markings. If you take a good look at the Antiphonaries in the Piccolomini library (Sienna), you'll note that for all their breathtaking splendour, the parchment used is rather thick and coarse compared to smaller books of the time. But then, the mechanics of a larger book do not require thin parchment... >The difference is that parchment has a skin grain. It can have the grain left intact. It can have the grain layer partially shaved away, or have it removed entirely by splitting. I've seen manuscripts using skins from the entire spectrum from split to full-grain. And I haven't seen that much. >The blood vessels in the >skin show up to varying degrees. This is sought out by book binders who >favor the grain look, but avoided as much as possible by medieval >illuminators. > The grain would definitely behave differently than the flesh side of the skin, or than the hair side of a skin that has had the grain removed (partially or wholely). I've seen manuscripts executed on the grain surface however. I'm not qualified to comment on whether or not they tried to avoid skins with the grain left intact. One thing to keep in mind is that a skin with the grain left intact will be thicker than a similar skin that has had the grain layer wholely or partially removed. In manuscript production, the selection of an appropriate thickness of skin for the size of the book being produced is important, and may be a factor in selecting shaved vs unshaved skins as well. That is to say, they may have chosen skins with the grain removed so that they could have a thinner parchment rather than because they didn't like working on the grain surface. > The whiter th page for illuminators, the better. Unfortunately,it >didn't always work out that way. The early britishpages are often darker >yellow and full of ugly marks compared to the fine french vellums of the >French 15th c. Court. Some of those early British books have been thru alot over the centuries. (some pages in the book of Kells were deliberately dyed by people attempting to restore the manuscript in the not so distant past) Another factor to remember is that a skin can darken significantly with age. Residual grease/oil yellows over the years. Two skins may be of similar 'whiteness' today, but age differently, depending on their grease content. > Some of it is the technology of raising and herding >animals with care and being very good in the slaughter, and some of it has >to do with starting with a herd of sheep not intended for book production. > Animal husbandry is certainly a factor, but I don't think anyone ever selected the animals with book production in mind. It just doesn't make much sense. A scribe may have selected the source of his skins with a mind to which region produced the best skins, but I doubt that he would have had much influence on the herdsman. Even today, I can influence the guy at the slaughterhouse by offering more money if he's careful at skinning, but the feedback doesn't get as far as the farmer (as much as I'd like them to keep Jerseys rather than Holsteins). In my opinion, the factors most likely to have had the largest impact on the quality of vellum/parchment for manuscripts was the organization of the parchment makers and their suppliers into guilds, and the introduction of lime into the manufacturing process. Method of slaughter probably didn't change much, as careful slaughter is important for the quality of the meat, which would have always been the primary concern. Care in skinning, and in the handling of the skin afterwards is important to the quality of the finished parchment. The organization of the collection of skins and prompt delivery to the parchment makers would be the key. This establishes a market for quality skins, with a corresponding increase in the care with which they are treated by the butcher, fell-monger, etc. (I've seen this dynamic at work in my own work) The use of lime provides for a more controlled processing of the skins, with more effective degreasing than earlier systems. While other factors have an effect, I suspect that it is these two factors that are the key to improvements in the quality of vellum/parchment over the course of the middle ages, along with a general evolution of the craft and improvement in the skill of the parchmenters. In early period, production would have been limited, and someone producing a large manuscript might have been forced to use whatever skins were available regardless of the quality. When parchment production reached its peak, an artist commisioned to produce a luxury manuscript would have had a larger output from which to select high quality skins. Competition between parchment makers in the larger urban centres would have driven quality up. Cheers, Rick/Balderik ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:53:54 -0800 From: guineth@juno.com (Emily SD Thompson) Subject: Re: [scribes]: ? regarding tech pens On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:20:22 EST PTS21@aol.com writes: > Some people decide to be very brave (read that "foolhardy") and >slide the >wire out of the inside of the pen tips on the tech pens. I've done it >with >pens that couldn't be cleaned any other way. It work in, maybe, ten >percent >of the pens and never really well in the real fine points. I don't >recommend >it at all. Having done manual drafting professionally, I tend to agree with this. The larger pens (size 2 or bigger) are not such a problem if you are careful and never, never try to force anything but water and cleaning solution in or out of the nib. With a smaller nib, if you take out the wire, be prepared for the possibility that you may have to replace the nib. If you do take out the wire and have difficulty getting it back in, try spinning it. That is how it is inserted in the factory. I use my sonic pen cleaner to loosen things up, but I like to finish things off by using a little pen cleaning syringe I found at a drafting supply store, and flushing the nib until the water runs clear. It is a little more work, but I am more confident that my pen is clean when I finish. Sister Guineth the White Dragons Mist, An Tir mka Emily Thompson Hillsboro, Oregon guineth@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:38:56 EST From: FITCHYBEAR@aol.com Subject: Re: [scribes]: ? regarding tech pens In a message dated 98-02-03 01:23:47 EST, PTS21@aol.com writes: << Some people decide to be very brave (read that "foolhardy") and slide the wire out of the inside of the pen tips on the tech pens. I've done it with pens that couldn't be cleaned any other way. It work in, maybe, ten percent of the pens and never really well in the real fine points. I don't recommend it at all. >> I totally disagree, I completely break down my pens including the nibs down to the wire. I find that if I don't, I run the risk of having the pen let loose a blob of ink on the tiniest part of the scroll I working on and then I have to spend twice the time fixing the blob then it would have taken to carefully break down the pen and clean it properly. Rotring makes a nice pen cleaning kit, although I don't care for the cleaning solution. I usually use a two bath method if the pens are particularly mucky, first a good soaking in acohol, rinse then into the bath of amonia and dishwashing liquid. Note to new scribes in particular........when transporting your pens, if you go up or down more than 1000' take the resivouirs out of your pens and bag the resivouirs and your bottles of ink. Changes in air pressure will probably force your ink out and it makes a real mess in the bottom of your scribes kit.-JimBear ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #34 ****************************