From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #21 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Friday, January 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 021 In this issue: [scribes]: Introduction Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . [scribes]: dots (fwd) Re: [scribes]: Introduction [scribes]: Pictures [scribes]: introduction post [scribes]: Introduction [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Pictures Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Pictures [scribes]: Styluses [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- [scribes Re: [scribes]: Re: [Scribes] What to do . . . [scribes]: Notes from Scribal Gathering... [scribes]: beginner questions--back to gouache again!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:00:07 -0800 From: Teri Nava-Vaughn Subject: [scribes]: Introduction This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------D9ADABD2DE69DC6430BC9FD1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think this came just to me, instead of the list: anderliz@maryvillecollege.edu wrote: > Greetings Good Gentles, > I was likewise requested to give a brief letter of introduction upon > my subscription to this list. > My name is Elizabet de Ross, I am from the Lowlands of > Scotland. I currently reside in my husbands home in the Barony of > Thor's Mountain, Kingdom of Meridies. My adventuring husband and > older brother thought that it would be prudent to have me well educated > in order to tend the keep and lands in their absence. I have gained a basic > knowledge of my letters and would love to learn more. > Elizabet > or > My name is Elizabeth Anderson, I am a novice scribe. I have a passion for > book binding, books in general, manuscripts, scrolls, etc. > My goal mundanely is to get a Doctorate in Historic Preservation > and Library Sciences. I love to learn and appreciate your sharing of knowledge. > Liz - --------------D9ADABD2DE69DC6430BC9FD1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25382 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:33:44 -0800 (PST) From: anderliz@maryvillecollege.edu Received: from news.usit.net (news.usit.net [199.1.48.11]) by transfer.usit.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA23854 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [] by news.usit.net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA29521; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:33:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199801291833.NAA29521@news.usit.net> Sender: X-Real-Sender: anderliz To: navavaughn@geocities.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:32:58 +0000 Subject: Introduction Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.21) Greetings Good Gentles, I was likewise requested to give a brief letter of introduction upon my subscription to this list. My name is Elizabet de Ross, I am from the Lowlands of Scotland. I currently reside in my husbands home in the Barony of Thor's Mountain, Kingdom of Meridies. My adventuring husband and older brother thought that it would be prudent to have me well educated in order to tend the keep and lands in their absence. I have gained a basic knowledge of my letters and would love to learn more. Elizabet or My name is Elizabeth Anderson, I am a novice scribe. I have a passion for book binding, books in general, manuscripts, scrolls, etc. My goal mundanely is to get a Doctorate in Historic Preservation and Library Sciences. I love to learn and appreciate your sharing of knowledge. Liz - --------------D9ADABD2DE69DC6430BC9FD1-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:19:26 -0800 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . Laurie Jenkins wrote: > I think this is a fascinating topic. I have a feeling that what is going on > is that those Kingdoms that give scrolls at the > time of the award have created a climate of importance for scroll > making that doesn't quite exist in Kingdoms that give promissories. > The Kingdoms that do give scrolls have made the process very visible. I think you're on to something here. When I lived in Atlantia, there was usually a scroll given in court with a major award, and sometimes for AoAs, too. Whenever a scroll was given, the herald would hold it up for the populace to admire (with a standard refrain of "Oooh....ahhhh...pretty!"). If it was something really stunning, it might be placed on display so people could take a closer look at it. I remember the fourth Baronial Birthday (and first Investiture since the founding) of Ponte Alto (VA outside DC), where the barony's charter was displayed--an incredible piece, something like four feet wide by two high, with probably the richest illumination I've ever seen. They also invited people to bring in their own scrolls to display. The whole upshot was that scribes were highly visible and fairly well organized. I haven't seen anything like that, either in the East (not surprising; small shire in central PA) or in the West (which is surprising; the Mists are even denser than northern Atlantia). Francois Thibault Crosston, Mists, West /================================================================\ |John Francis Stracke| http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| |francis@thibault.org|===========================================| |Power Mac w/PPP | My strength is as the strength of ten | |My Mac, my opinions.| because my code is pure. | \================================================================/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:03:27 -1000 From: Jan McEwen Subject: [scribes]: dots (fwd) Another forward from Mistress Miriel. Catriona - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jan McEwen, University of Hawaii - Lyon Arboretum, Micropropagation Lab SCA: Catriona Stewart of the Glens, Barony of the Western Seas, Caid Internet: jmcewen@hawaii.edu - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:55:25 -1000 From: Barbara Taylor To: jmcewen@hawaii.edu Subject: dots Cat, Thanks for the dot info. I never tried the toothpick thing, but it was the first thing Brian suggested when I mentioned it to him. Clever, ain't he? I've used a round-tipped pen like a speedball B series, as some suggested, or a sable brush that points really well. You have to reload it frequently with fairly liquid paint. Re: the color. Nobody seemed to address this (that you sent on to me anyway). According to Janet Backhouse they are done with red lead (minium), which is that bright orangey-red color. "The book of Saint Cuthbert which fell into the sea" mentioned in a 1367 ms. of the Lindisfarne Priory may or may not be the Lindisfarne gospels. It may by then have been at Durham Cathedral, where St. Cuthbert was laid to rest in 1104; it's been identified with an item on the relic list of 1383, but it doesn't say how soggy it was. It probabaly traveled to London after the dissolution of the monasteries under Henry 8; it seems to have been part of the Records at the Tower in 1567. She also says that the initial page of St. Luke's gospel has about 10,600 red dots. "Experiment suggests that a rate of 30 dots per minute might be achieved" but she doesn't say how. So the dots on that one page represent at least six hours of concentrated work. However you do it, it won't go fast. You can pass that on if you think they'd enjoy a little history. Miriel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:01:14 +0000 From: anderliz@maryvillecollege.edu Subject: Re: [scribes]: Introduction Teri Nava-Vaughn wrote: I think this came just to me, instead of the list: Ooops!(Bright Red Face) Sorry about that. That send button can be a dangerous thing. Thanks for your patience. Elizabet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:36:26 -0500 From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: [scribes]: Pictures Hello fellow scribes! I've been re-working my web site and put a page in which has some of my older manuscript style pages. It also has a pair of wax tablet sets and the styluses which go with them. If you want to check this page my web site URL is below. Go to the Medieval Scribal Arts page. Have fun! anthulfr Asparlundr Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:47:02 -0500 (EST) From: stacey jill wahrman Subject: [scribes]: introduction post I've been lurking for a few days, so it's probably time I introduced myself. My name is Arianwen ferch Maelgwn, and I live in Storvik, in Atlantia. I've been "playing" with calligraphy and illumination for about eight years, but only recently got up the nerve to start attending a scriptorium and get assigned actual scrolls. I've done about half a dozen scrolls of various types since summer, and my preference tends to be later period, especially French (I have a thing for icanthus leaves :-)). Nesxt month I'm taking the big step of apprenticing to Mistress Allasondrea de Fano, who has been endlessly supportive and full of advice for my work. Mundanely I'm a graduate student in Medieval literature at the Univeristy of Maryland, working with the history of women's reading, so I'm very interested in books of hours both from an artistic and a historical perspective. I'm glad to be a part of the list, so far everything has been fascinating, and it's nice to know there are people working on similar projects with the same questions and problems across the country :-) Arianwen ferch Maelgwn mka Stacey Wahrman wahrman@wam.umd.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:23:22 -0800 From: elsworth@erols.com Subject: [scribes]: Introduction My name is Isobel Gildingwater, I'm from the Barony of Lochmere, in the Kingdom of Atlantia. I'm currently subscribing to the digest (my husband and I get upwards of fifty messages a day as it is), so I apologize if my messages are a little slow on the uptake. I've been doing the scribe thang for about six years now, two of them as Kingdom Clerk Signet. Mundanely, I'm also an artist. Thanks for putting up this cool list. :) Isobel ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 1998 13:40:42 -0800 From: "Marisa Herzog" Subject: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Pictures RE>[scribes]: Pictures 1/30/98 of my older manuscript style pages. It also has a pair of wax tablet sets and the styluses which go with them. If you want to I hope this is not a really ignorant question, but wax tablets were meant to be re-used, yes? How do you "clean the slate" so to speak? Rub out the letters? Re-melt the wax? Any special tools? - -brid mists, west ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:07:14 -0500 From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Pictures > RE>[scribes]: Pictures 1/30/98 > >of my older manuscript style pages. It also has a pair of wax tablet >sets and the styluses which go with them. If you want to > >I hope this is not a really ignorant question, but wax tablets were meant to >be re-used, yes? How do you "clean the slate" so to speak? Rub out the >letters? Re-melt the wax? Any special tools? >-brid >mists, west Just in time! I just put up some pictures of my waxed tablets on my web page (URL below). When I was in Switzerland a bit back,I was fortunate enough to be able to handle a waxed tablet from the region which dates to the 15th c. I was able to take direct measurements and inspect everything down to wax thickness and angle/shape of the grooves cut by the stylus. The results were very similar to other tablets which I havehandled going back to Roman times. I can tell you all you may need to know to make an authentic set. To answer your question, yes the wax was meant to be smoothed back downflat. This was done with the spatulate end of the stylus. The wax can not be winter cold, but works fine for this at room temperature. One does not normally remove the wax until it is dirty or has otherwise degraded in appearance, such as when it gets used a lot and the wax is just not overthe whole surface evenly. One does NOT re-melt the wax. The wax itself is of little more thickness than a thick layer of viscous paint. That is to say less trhan a millimeter to a touch more. Melting it would buble it and re-distribute it too thinly. It goes in originally hot with a brush and then can be mushed around when set. You see evidence of this in extant examples. Ranthulfr Asparlundr OL,KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:13:39 -0500 From: randyaf@provide.net (Randy & Melody Asplund-Faith) Subject: [scribes]: Styluses There was a fellow who told me that he thought that the round ball ended styluses were wax tablet styluses and the ball was used to smooth the wax when time to erase. Clearly, the spatulate ended styluses were used that way, but the rounds? I thought about it, and tried a round for erasing. I just don't buy it. I have nothing but intuition to go on here, but if I were to guess, I would suspect that the round ended styluses are actually pin pricking tools for text layout on the page. The ball would be just right for the palm of thehand, and that is needed to do that task. They could also have been used to write with, and it seems there is every reason to expect that. But as for erasing, I really doubt it. Ranthilfr Asparlundr OL, KSCA Randy Asplund-Faith 2101 S. Circle Dr. Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 http://www.provide.net/~randyaf ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 1998 14:32:50 -0800 From: "Marisa Herzog" Subject: [scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Re- [scribes RE>>[scribes]: Re: [scribes]- Pictures 1/30/98 but wax tablets were meant to >be re-used, yes? How do you "clean the slate" so to speak? Rub out the >letters? Re-melt the wax? Any special tools? >-brid >mists, west Just in time! To answer your question, yes the wax was meant to be smoothed back downflat. This was done with the spatulate end of the stylus. Oh thank you! I never could figure out how that was all meant to work out, I will file this away as a future project for my mythical free time! - -brid mists, west ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:35:01 -0800 From: John Stracke Subject: Re: [scribes]: Re: [Scribes] What to do . . . ab873@jepms4.jep.cummins.com wrote: > I am curious as to > the standards different people have set for themselves at to what is the > minimum level of complexity acceptable for an AOA scroll or a Kingdom > Award scroll. My first (so far only) scroll can be seen at: http://www.thibault.org/sca/scribe/myscrolls It's an AoA scroll; I'm not really sure it's good enough, but the Principality scribe accepted it, and said it was good, so I guess it more or less represents the local minimum. :-) It's pretty simple; the only illuminations are the border (a thin vine thingy) and the arms. The vines twine around the initial and come up on either side of the arms. Francois Thibault Crosston, Mists, West /================================================================\ |John Francis Stracke| http://www.thibault.org |S/MIME & HTML OK| |francis@thibault.org|===========================================| |Power Mac w/PPP | My strength is as the strength of ten | |My Mac, my opinions.| because my code is pure. | \================================================================/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:42:29 EST From: SuZaimware@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: Notes from Scribal Gathering... Is anyone planning to go out to the Scribal gathering Feb 21 in Renton, WA? I can't go, but would LOVE either email or paper notes from the classes, especially the one on illumination for non-artists! (that would be ME they're talking about!!!) I can send SASE, stamps, copying fees, whatever, just can't make it in person!!! Many thanks, Maryz the Somewhat Scattered ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:57:04 EST From: SuZaimware@aol.com Subject: [scribes]: beginner questions--back to gouache again!!! okay, so i followed all the traffic on gouache and got excited and went shopping for some....all i found was winsor newton watercolors, not w/n gouache...one of the posts seemed to indicate that gouache was watercolor mixed with gum arabic-->i have gum arabic, do i just mix it (in what proportions?) with the watercolor paint? or was the store i was at just deficient (highly likely, it was Michael's craft center, not a *real* art supply store)? 2nd question...what sizes/types (round, line) brushes would you consider a starter set? i'm graduating from colored pencils and markers here, and won't claim to have been wonderfully proficient at those!!! But i'm determined to do a french vine border (i learned how to do one at a collegium) in paint, not just with the technical pen! any help appreciated...feel free to respond privately if the group doesn't want to rehash topics that have been covered before! With many thanks! Maryz the Somewhat Scattered "Transformation through Knowledge, Bound by Reason" ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #21 ****************************