From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #18 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Thursday, January 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 018 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: Celtic Red Dots? Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . Re: [scribes]: Celtic Red Dots? [scribes]: Fw: Scribal Gathering February 21in Wyewood-questionaire for scribes(long) Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . [scribes]: red dots ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 23:53:17 PDT From: ercil@astrid.upland.ca.us (E. Howard-Wroth) Subject: Re: [scribes]: Celtic Red Dots? > SNIP... Also, the dots are not red, they are actually > a red-orange. If you have some vermilion gouache, it > will probably be fairly close. I have found that red-orange > stick ink is almost the exact match to my facsimile copy > of the Kells. I am wondering if the color was orginially red? I thought that the colors had faded at least somewhat over time. I have looked at a facsimile, but not in the depth you have. Would you comment on the color fading issues with regards to the paints used? Many Thanks Astridhr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:46:08 -0500 From: Lea Viljanen Subject: Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . > "Is it possible that the Kingdoms where Promisorys are given out are the > same Kingdoms where there is an extremely large population base and/or a > large number of events? I don't think this the only reason. Some years back I got a promisory AoA scroll but I think this was more due to not very organized Signet Clerk than the sheer number of scrolls to be made. I got the real scroll a year or so later. Nowadays people here in Drachenwald do get real scrolls at the event and we have more people and events than ever. Lady Kerttu aka - -- Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen Fact without theory is trivia. Lea.Viljanen@nixu.fi Theory without fact is bullshit. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:43:42 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . Well Cystennin, this will be an approximation because I haven't been Kingdom Signet for nearly four years and I don't know the scribe numbers anymore. But.... The Middle Kingdom usually gives out more than 100 scrolls/awards each REIGN (our Reigns are 6-months long)!!! We are split up into Regions (read that mostly as along state boundaries) with "under" signets assigned to administer them under the Kingdom Signet (who is also a Deputy of the Kingdom Herald, by the way). There are usually anywhere from 5 to 15 scribes in any one region. Now, our Royalty usually (with a few exceptions) give out awards to gentles who live in the region where the event is being held, so most of the time, a scribe can be found who either really knows the recipient or sort of knows them. (This helps to make the designing of the scroll a little easier.) When I took over as Kingdom Signet in 1993, I had a list of scribes for the Kingdom that was three pages of single-spaced type (names/addresses/phones/region). Basically, Royalty contact the Kingdom Signet with a court list, the KS then contacts the appropriate Regional Signet, who then contacts the region's various scribes. Sometimes this works really well, as the Royalty try to get to each region in the Kingdom at least once during each Reign -- but sometimes they get to a region more than once, and then the scribes get overtasked. On top of this "advance" notice, there are always between 5 to 10 more awards where the recommendations did not come in a timely manner and the Royalty does not feel they should be left out until the next Reign. I hope this is a clear picture, but I have cc'd this to the Dragon Signet and she can comment as she sees fit. By the way, she was one of the Regional Signets when I was the Kingdom Signet, and established a really good "guild" (for lack of a better word) of scribes in her region that still exists and are great producers -- both in quality and quantity. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom ~~ Vert, a unicorn head couped close Argent, crinned and armed Or, and in sinister, a gore Or ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ---------- > From: Kenneth Stoner > To: scribes@castle.org > Subject: Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . > Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 2:52 AM > > I was on the way home tonight and was thinking about the whole > "Promisory V. Completed Scoll" thingy and had the following thought: > > "Is it possible that the Kingdoms where Promisorys are given out are the > same Kingdoms where there is an extremely large population base and/or a > large number of events? > > Looking at the CP and doing some research... Our monarchs attended > almost 22 events in 1997. Of those I think almost 100 awards were given > out... I know for a fact that 34 awards were given in just one Barony at a > single event... Obviously this would be an extreme burden on the scribes in > Caid if we were to have to do 100 scrolls a year... concidering that there > are only about 8 of us actively doing commisions right now (by my own > possibly faulty count). This doesn;t even count the 27 awards that were > given out in the Barony in 1997. Calafia, my Barony, has approx 180 > subscribers to the baronial newsletter and well over 400 active > participants. Hmmm.... > > Sound reasonable? I know the west has a high concentration of populace > and an extremely large number of events (with 3 principalities of 2 reigns > per year and 3 Royal reigns per year). Artmesia, a new Kingdom, does > promisorys too though. And my Barony might outnumber that whole Kingdom... > at least thats what it seemed like back when we were a principality. (I used > to live there). What about Ansteorra or Atlantia? How about the Middle? > > Cystennin Sends. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:11:31 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: Celtic Red Dots? Hi Astridr, Well, it is totally possible the color faded, that book was found (I think) floating in the ocean, after all. But, it seems to be the same color throughout the manuscript. And, it is quite vivid, so I tend to think it is not faded. The yellows and the oranges seem to have held up quite well - -- as well as most of the colors considering what they experienced. Master Ranthulfr is probably more knowledgeable about this aspect and I'm hoping he will "chime in" here with the real story for you. I just noticed this triangle and color connection myself after I got this facsimile (it is the big one that is nearly full-sized and in a slipcover). I think I paid $60 or $70 for mine, but I've seen them for more -- mine was a well-looked at copy (at least on the outside) so was not brand new. New ones cost more than $100. I tend to doubt, too, that you will find it in the Inter-Library Loan system, but you could try. There might be an enlightened library out there with a copy. It is worth looking at through a good magnification just to see the astounding detail -- I mean, these scribes had only daylight or candlelight to work with, and this was well before eyeglasses were commonly used. It still boggles my mind when I look at how beautiful it is. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom ~~ Vert, a unicorn head couped close Argent, crinned and armed Or, and in sinister, a gore Or ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > I am wondering if the color was orginially red? > I thought that the colors had faded at least somewhat over > time. I have looked at a facsimile, but not in the depth > you have. > > Would you comment on the color fading issues > with regards to the paints used? > > Many Thanks > Astridhr > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:46:53 -0800 From: "Tammy L. Williams (Tamlyn of Wintersea)" Subject: [scribes]: Fw: Scribal Gathering February 21in Wyewood-questionaire for scribes(long) - ---------- > From: Tammy L. Williams (Tamlyn of Wintersea) > To: SCA - Barony of Madrone [Seattle] > Subject: Fw: Scribal Gathering February 21in Wyewood-questionaire for scribes(long) > Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 7:30 PM Greetings to all, Sorry about the multiple posting, but I thought there might be scribes on this list from An Tir that haven't been on the other lists I've sent to. > > I am seeking information that will be put in a booklet form for those > attending the Scribal Gathering February 21 in Wyewood, would all those > scribes on the lists please reply and if you know of anyone that doesn't > have the Steps available to them could you please make the questionnaire > and event information at the end of this missive available to them. > > Also there are some demos that will be taught as classes these include > Uncial by HL Tamsin de Lesseley of Seabeck, Blackletter by HL Elena Anne > of > Lostwithiel, Illumination for the non-artist by HL Jill Blackhorse, Scroll > Layout by Master Donn and Heraldic Scroll Policies and working with the > Heralds by Dame Zenobia. If you are coming and are interested in demoing > something please let me know. Also if you have books that have helped you > with the scribal arts, a scroll portfolio or a scribal object to display > these are welcome. The mid-day feast is now only $4. > > With much Thanks, > HL Tamlyn of Wyntersea > > > - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > INFORMATION REQUEST FROM SCRIBES > > - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > WHO ARE YOU? (society and modernnames, if you would like a brief SCA > history) > > HOW TO CONTACT YOU? (any and all means and designate which is best, also > what society branch(es)/groups you associate with). > > WHAT IS YOUR SCRIBAL EXPERIENCE? (Scrolls done, original/charters, > calligraphical hands you know, types of illumination you've > done-Gothic/insular etc, past/present society positions that relate to > the > scribal arts-A&S Minister, Chief Scribe, Royal Scribe, Herald's office, > Jambe de Leon/Laurel with emphasis on the scribal arts). > > WHAT KINDS OF THINGS YOU ARE INTERESTED IN/WILLING TO DO? (Ithra > classes- > in what?, commissioned scrolls, originals/charters, person to person > teaching?) > > - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COPY FOR SCRIBAL GATHERING > - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > The Canton of Wyewood invites all interested in the Scribal Arts to > gather > with us February 21. This is an opportunity for those new to the art > to learn from some of the Kingdom's experienced scribes and for those > with > experience to share their expertise. Morning/Early afternoon activities > include demos of various scribal arts, a scroll gallery (please bring > examples of your work to share), a resources library for scroll ideas > and a display of scribal related items. A slideshow of the An Tir > Domesday > Book is planned. A Midday Feast is being prepared by Team Wyewood, our > culinary group. After the feast there will be a roundtable panel > discussion on > such subjects as how to start and maintain a scriptoreum, how to make > award/grant > level scrolls heraldically legit, methods/materials for scroll > preservation, the An Tir Scroll System (how to get kingdom scrolls to > work on), et al. If you have questions bring them and we will try to > find you some answers. > > Location: Good Neighbor Center (site is dry), 305 S 43rd Street, Renton, > WA. Pay phone: (425)255-9031. Site opens at 9AM, cost is $2.50. > Feast is $4.00 per person, reservations are required by February 7, > limit 50 seats. > > Autocrat: HL Tamlyn of Wyntersea (mka Tammy Williams) PO BOX 59421 > Renton, WA 98058-2421. Phone (425)271-1647, E-mail tamlyn@gte.net. > For feast reservations contact Celeste de la Houssaye (mka Holly > Kelley) > 3632 S 186th Street, Seatac, WA 98188. Phone (206)242-7612, E-mail > hollyk@dbug.org. > > DIRECTIONS: From north of Madrone (we're one of their cantons): Take > I-5 southbound, use Exit 154A to get onto I-405 Eastbound (you must be in > the lefthand lane to do this, if you get on the bypass don't worry it > will > connect back up to the exit, just make sure you are in the lane for > I-405). Go approx 2 miles on I-405 and take Exit 2 to Highway 167 South > (Kent/Auburn), take the first exit off of Highway 167 staying in the left > hand lane, at the exit light turn left onto East Valley. At the next > light turn left > onto SW 43, you will pass over Highway 167, take the first > right-Davis Ave S, the Good Neighbor Center is on the corner, it is > across > the street from the hospital. > > From south of Madrone: Take I-5 northbound, take exit 142A(Auburn/North > Bend) onto Highway 18, about 2 miles later exit onto Northbound Highway > 167 > (Kent/Renton), travel about 9.5 miles until Exit for S 180 st/SW 43 ST, > turn right off of the exit, take the first right onto Davis Ave S, the > Good > Neighbor Center is on the corner across from the hospital. > > From East of Madrone: take I-90 over pass, turn south on I-405 travel to > Exit 2 for Highway 167 south, follow rest of directions for those coming > from the North. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:35:52 +0000 From: "Jessica Wilbur" Subject: Re: [scribes]: What to do . . . > > Sound reasonable? I know the west has a high concentration of populace > and an extremely large number of events (with 3 principalities of 2 reigns > per year and 3 Royal reigns per year). Artmesia, a new Kingdom, does > promisorys too though. And my Barony might outnumber that whole Kingdom... > at least thats what it seemed like back when we were a principality. (I used > to live there). What about Ansteorra or Atlantia? How about the Middle? > > Cystennin Sends. In Atlantia, we use promissories for some awards, particularly AoA's. I couldn't tell you how many awards are given out per reign, but it seems like a lot! Parts of our kingdom have a fairly high concentration of people, but I don't really know the statistics as far as scrolls given out, etc. For major awards given, like Peerages, we often have the "real thing" to give, but not always. - --Muireann ni Riordain Ponte Alto, Atlantia (mka Jessica Wilbur Centreville, VA) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:40:08 -0700 From: Holly Cochran Subject: [scribes]: red dots I use a rapidiograph tech pen with a nib that is conveniently dot size, filled with red Calli ink (the orangey red that matches the dot color in the pictures I have) and make the dots that way. I keep that pen only for the red ink. I used to do the same type thing with a tech pen full of white ink for vines and whitework, but ran out of nonclogging white ink and decided to use a brush and etc. Aidan ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #18 ****************************