From: owner-scribes@castle.org (scribes digest) To: scribes-digest@castle.org Subject: scribes digest V1 #7 Reply-To: Sender: owner-scribes@castle.org Errors-To: owner-scribes@castle.org Precedence: bulk scribes digest Sunday, January 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 007 In this issue: Re: [scribes]: ? re: glassine Re: [scribes]: inexpensive gold/silver substitute Re: [scribes]: Some books I found.... Re: [scribes]: inexpensive gold/silver substitute Re: [scribes]: What about the words ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:58:49 -0500 From: "Helen Schultz" Subject: Re: [scribes]: ? re: glassine Well, I was taught to use glassine to actually "touch" the gold when laying it. Since gold usually does not stick to glassine (unless you get skin oils on it), it is wonderful to place between the gold and your finger to press the gold to the size. Then, to further help the gold to adhere to the size, burnish it with the glassine on top. When it is set, you can then do a direct burnish to really bring up the shine of gold. I really like the ease of using my acrylic gesso mix (that I mentioned a couple days ago), but nothing is prettier than the burnish you get using a more traditional gesso recipe. I have one that I will have to dig out and put on here. It isn't the Medieval recipe, but it uses most of the traditional ingredients. It makes a fairly large batch, but you make little droplets of the size and let them dry. Later, when you want to gild, you get one out and reconstitute it. Takes many more layers to get it thick for raised gilding than the acrylic gesso mix, but it is worth it in smoothness and shine of burnished gold. I guess everything we do has some sort of trade-off. Ranthulfr uses the Medieval traditional recipe and gets very beautiful results...I'm just too lazy. Holly said: > > I know what glassine is, but this is the first I've ever heard about using > it to burnish. Admittedly my knowledge is VERY limited on this subject. > The only time I've actually seen it done was on a PBS calligraphy series > several years ago and he used the usual agate-on-a-stick burnisher on real > gold leaf. I'll have to see if I still have the tapes.. HM. > > Just wondered. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) Middle Kingdom ~~ Vert, a unicorn head couped close Argent, crinned and armed Or, and in sinister, a gore Or ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:11:28 -0600 From: Cornelius Perkins Subject: Re: [scribes]: inexpensive gold/silver substitute > Well, Ariannawyn and Neil, now it is my turn to get a little picky. The > main problem with a hand-held piece of whatever you chose to burnish with, > is that you will get hand oils on it...they in turn will pull your gold off > if you are doing direct burnishing (which you CAN do with hematite and > agate, by the way, I've done it). Thanks, Katarina. You have saved me some disappointment. I shallhave to figure out a way to keep hand oils off the stone. A handle makes sense. Hmmm... Nice little setting, decent wood.... could be pretty, actually. Thanks for the suggestion. Neil - -- // Cornelius Perkins cperkins@nothinbut.net // http://www.nothinbut.net/~cperkins // In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:07:42 +1100 From: Jeffrey Warwick Blanchard Subject: Re: [scribes]: Some books I found.... At 20:45 23/01/98 PST, Elyse wrote: >THE KNOTWORK ZONE! >2. _How to Draw Celtic Knotwork: A Practicle >Handbook_ by Andy Sloss. >So, has anyone used the Sloss books? Being a computer geek, I glossed over Sloss (sorry...). I have never had the oppurtunity to practice the Bain method, and then this guy starts blathering about how good the Bain method is for the reproduction of authentic period pieces, but atrociously bad for the creation of original knotwork. Hmmm, interesting and just the thing I was after (I was doing a non-SCA piece for someone and didn't want something straight out of Kells). You are correct in assuming that the designs produced are of mathmatical precision as this guy designed it for a computer in order to get reams and reams of continuous knotwork that was original in design. And for what he has set out to do, it works with alarmingly good results. He also teaches a method of doing freehand knotwork using the basic icons (which he calls "charted sections" as they are all square in design). This method can be picked up in minutes and involves no guidelines or painful rubbing out. Hope this is of some use. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:39:31 +1100 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: inexpensive gold/silver substitute David Columbus wrote: > > Jen Rosen wrote: > > > > > I just think it's super cool and everyone should be using the real thing! > > > > In terms of the intimidation factor: > > > > The only thing that is hard about using real gold is having an area without > > a lot of breeze. :) You don't have to use authentic binding materials to > > start out. I started out using PVA (a bookbinding synthetic glue found at > > many art stores) to do flat gold -- I'm now playing with raised gold with a > > commercially prepared gesso -- this is harder, but I'm still working on the > > process. You don't need an $80 brush or a leather pad. You need a clean, > > dry, soft bursh (1/2 inch at least) and an exacto knife. You also need > > about 3" x 3" of glassine, to burnish through. If you can treat yourself > > to a burnisher, it helps, but you can use the back of the xacto too. I've > > had great success and the results are beautiful. I would encourage > > everyone to try this! I can post more about technique if you want. > > I'm glad someone else agrees that the real thing is quite easy. And > that you don't need a lot of expensive equipment to do it (but a goob > burnisher IS worth it's weight in gold ---) > > I show the traditional techniques to many people. And I get the same > response. "Gee, I thought it would be a lot harder than that..." > > So if anyone is interested in trying real gilding, find someone in your > area and ask if they'd show you how. You'd be surprised at how they'll > welcome another person to show. > > B'wana Christofano Hi, I use transfer leaf (23 ct) ($A35[$US23] for 25 sheets 85 mm * 85 mm) and gum ammoniacium, which is very easy to use. I mark the are for gilding, then paint this area with gum, wait for it to dry (10 minutes at most and 2 for the impatient). Then using a breathing tube (a glass tube, being able to see when a drop of condensate is about to drop is important, as this ruins the area and back to square 1 and start again) dampen the gum. Next I place the transfer leaf over the area and press and burnish. Then peal the paper backing away and the area is gilded (usually) some tidying up is necessary, then wait for it to dry before polishing. Transfer leaf has a wax paper backing, which can get onto your paper and thus can repel paint, but three of four application of paint will overcome this. I rarely place a second layer of gold. If the gold does not stick, I polish, more gum and repeat. I use a hematite burnisher, which is one of several polished pebbles I bought for a dollar each from a "New Age" shop, they also have agate, lapis, malachite and amethyst. So, I have found gilding easy and use lots of gold on my projects. I am about to start using raised gold with a commercial, locally made gesso, which is meant to be made for Australian conditions. As ever Thorfinn, Lochac, West Melbourne, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:39:07 +1100 From: Steve Roylance Subject: Re: [scribes]: What about the words Michel Macdonald wrote: > > I just completed the census questionnaire, and it reminded me that being a > scribe includes coming up with the verbiage for the scrolls. > > Writing the words is an art form in it self (IMHO). So, I was wondering > just how many scribes write there own scrolls. Do you have someone > else come up with the words, do you use "Stock" verbiage. > > Thanks, Michel Hi, I am into researching and reproducing period and near period wordings, which are long. Some of the texts are from transcribing mundane patents of arms and from collecting period and near period documents. >From Munimenta Heraldica 1484-1984, G.D.Squibb, London, 1985, ISBN0-9500207-6-1, which is an anniversary publication of documents relating to the English College of Arms, there are several documents of interest 1 Letters Patent of Incorporation, 1484 2 Letters Patent of Incorporation, 1555 10 Letters Patent of Appointment of Hereditary Earl Marshal, 1672 Of note of these is that all are in 1 Latin 2 the first word is the name of the King, and this continues to the twentieth century none of the other documents start with the authorities name but begin like "To all and singular ..." 3 very verbose (2) has 1420 words in it (10) has 3330 words in it It also elevates a baron to a duke and grants rights and privialges minimal abrievation and styles written in full at each mention 4 almost no change in style between 1555 and 1672 Transcribed from photo's reproduced in heraldry books are from Herald's documents granting arms these points of note: 1 Those from the sixteenth century are in English, I have a fifteenth century one in Latin. 2 The phrase "as more plainly apperith depicted in the margens" directly from a grant of 1567 and this phrase is also found in grants from the 1980's (moderised of course) and in all other heralds grants I have found so far. 3 English grants of arms are documents by heralds acting on authority of a charter granted to the Earl Marshall and this line of authority is mentioned in each document. This is rather a thin sample but from this I have generated some very period sounding scripts for the Pelican, Laurel and Viscounty scrolls I have done in he last few years. Also, I have got others (usually the Principality scribe) to check the texts and others to check the finished text. I almost have a generic script based on these period/near period texts that works well. I specifically have left out the repition of attributes and accolades as it already generates a script of about 500 words, but this could easily be extended to 1000. ------------------------------ End of scribes digest V1 #7 ***************************