[Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters

[Chiara Francesca]

There is a huge difference between kingdom arms and the populace badge.

They are correct, kingdom arms are only for the crown to use. But the populace badge is for all to use.

♫
Chiara Francesca


> -----Original Message-----
> From: antir_scribes-bounces at castle.org [mailto:antir_scribes-
> bounces at castle.org] On Behalf Of Tammy Williams
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:39 PM
> To: teganconwy at yahoo.com; 'Ursula Georges'; mehitabel19 at yahoo.com
> Cc: antir_scribes at castle.org
> Subject: Re: [Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters
> 
> Black Lion has come out previously to say that the (King)dom's arms are
> not
> to be used on charters and most scrolls (Ducal, I think, and possibly
> County
> would be those which would be reserved for use of the King's and
> Queen's
> arms).
> 
> Tamlyn
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antir_scribes-bounces at castle.org
> [mailto:antir_scribes-bounces at castle.org] On Behalf Of Tegan Conwy
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 2:19 PM
> To: Ursula Georges; mehitabel19 at yahoo.com
> Cc: antir_scribes at castle.org
> Subject: Re: [Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters
> 
> You could always leave it blank, provide Eleanor with a description of
> your
> concerns and allow TRH and Eleanor to make a decision on what they
> would
> prefer.  As one of the current
> royal scribes I would think the populace badge would be quite nice. Or
> the
> kingdom arms, but I know there would be some argument about that being
> okay.. I can, however, document
> it being done in period. ;-)
> 
> Tegan of Conwy
> 
> --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Alexis Garrigues <mehitabel19 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Alexis Garrigues <mehitabel19 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters
> To: "Ursula Georges" <ursula at math.washington.edu>
> Cc: antir_scribes at castle.org
> Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:00 PM
> 
> Thank you all for your suggestions- I especially like the vair idea, as
> there
> are many instances of vair in this manuscript.  The populace badge
> would be
> okay as well, if that would be more palatable to Heralds.
> Is anyone on this list in the position to give either of these ideas an
> official "OK", so that I can finish the charter and send it off to
> Eleanor?
> The shield is less than 2" across, but falls rather centrally in the
> panel
> of illustration.  I can't really see changing its shape or eliminating
> it,
> as all of the shields in the source manuscript are heater-shaped.  That
> would
> look very strange to me.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Annisa
> 
> --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Ursula Georges <ursula at math.washington.edu>
> wrote:
> From: Ursula Georges <ursula at math.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters
> To: "Arnora" <ArnoraGrimsdottir at msn.com>
> Cc: antir_scribes at castle.org
> Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 12:57 PM
> 
> Arnora wrote:
> 
> > Now my question: Would it be acceptable to use the An Tir populace
> > badge in an instance like this? Kingdom award, Kingdom resident -
> > makes sense to me.
> 
> As far as heraldic rules go, I don't see any reason not to use the
> kingdom populace badge on an illustrated shield.  But I'm not sure it
> would be the most authentic way to use it, or for that matter, the most
> fun-- in my observation, badges in medieval illumination are more
> likely
> to be worked into the design somehow (imagine it on the fighter's
> surcoat, or a cushion, or decorative hangings, or peeking out from a
> border, or serving as a crest on a helm . . .)
> 
> Ursula Georges.
> 
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