[Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters

Mon Oct 20 16:38:46 PDT 2008

Black Lion has come out previously to say that the (King)dom's arms are not
to be used on charters and most scrolls (Ducal, I think, and possibly County
would be those which would be reserved for use of the King's and Queen's
arms).

Tamlyn

-----Original Message-----
From: antir_scribes-bounces at castle.org
[mailto:antir_scribes-bounces at castle.org] On Behalf Of Tegan Conwy
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 2:19 PM
To: Ursula Georges; mehitabel19 at yahoo.com
Cc: antir_scribes at castle.org
Subject: Re: [Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters

You could always leave it blank, provide Eleanor with a description of your
concerns and allow TRH and Eleanor to make a decision on what they would
prefer.  As one of the current 
royal scribes I would think the populace badge would be quite nice. Or the
kingdom arms, but I know there would be some argument about that being
okay.. I can, however, document 
it being done in period. ;-)

Tegan of Conwy

--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Alexis Garrigues <mehitabel19 at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Alexis Garrigues <mehitabel19 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters
To: "Ursula Georges" <ursula at math.washington.edu>
Cc: antir_scribes at castle.org
Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 2:00 PM

Thank you all for your suggestions- I especially like the vair idea, as
there
are many instances of vair in this manuscript.  The populace badge would be
okay as well, if that would be more palatable to Heralds.  
Is anyone on this list in the position to give either of these ideas an
official "OK", so that I can finish the charter and send it off to
Eleanor?  
The shield is less than 2" across, but falls rather centrally in the panel
of illustration.  I can't really see changing its shape or eliminating it,
as all of the shields in the source manuscript are heater-shaped.  That
would
look very strange to me.  

Thanks again, 
Annisa

--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Ursula Georges <ursula at math.washington.edu> wrote:
From: Ursula Georges <ursula at math.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Antir_scribes] Shield shapes on charters
To: "Arnora" <ArnoraGrimsdottir at msn.com>
Cc: antir_scribes at castle.org
Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 12:57 PM

Arnora wrote:

> Now my question: Would it be acceptable to use the An Tir populace
> badge in an instance like this? Kingdom award, Kingdom resident -
> makes sense to me.

As far as heraldic rules go, I don't see any reason not to use the 
kingdom populace badge on an illustrated shield.  But I'm not sure it 
would be the most authentic way to use it, or for that matter, the most 
fun-- in my observation, badges in medieval illumination are more likely 
to be worked into the design somehow (imagine it on the fighter's 
surcoat, or a cushion, or decorative hangings, or peeking out from a 
border, or serving as a crest on a helm . . .)

Ursula Georges.

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